# What are the prices for Permanency when you don't know the spell yourself?

I want to make an item, say a sword, permanently invisible and I am a little unsure as to the pricing required for this.

The price of the item doesn't need to be figured out.

Having an NPC cast a spell under the services rules is

Caster level × spell level × 10 gp

The price of a scroll is

Spell level × caster level × 25 gp

Now, invisibility is a 2nd level spell. If I was capable of casting the spell myself, odds are that it would be free. If I need a scroll for some reason then the price would be 2×3×25=150. From an NPC source it would be 3×2×10=60.

Permanency has some different requirements beyond just needing to be cast. In this case invisibility costs 5,000 gp in base resources. To obtain the scroll would be 5×9×25=1125, and the NPC 9×5×10=450.

The following prices do not include the cost of the item to make invisible.

To do the job yourself should be fairly straight forward and easier to manage (if not a bit more costly) at 150 scroll + 1125 scroll + 5000 materials = 6,250 gp.

To get the job done with an NPC would require a large city due to permanency being a 5th level spell. 60 for invisibility + 450 for permanency + 5000 for materials = 5,510 gp (a savings of 740 for some inconvenience).

Do I have the prices correct or have I missed any steps?

• Is there a reason you are calculating your gold costs as (Spell level + CL)x10 or 25? 2*3 = 6, not 5 as you have written here. So the scroll would cost 150, and the npc spell would cost 60. Jul 28, 2016 at 16:34
• @GreySage I assumed that was part of the check my math question. I was about to edit just the title to spell permanency correctly but I didn't want to do so and leave the math error, so I think we should leave it to the asker to fix one or the other or both. Jul 28, 2016 at 19:10
• I made an error when doing the numbers, they have been corrected, but didnt change the price much. Jul 28, 2016 at 21:06

This looks almost correct. However, I'm almost certain a scroll of permanency must include as part of its creation (therefore adding to its price) expending material components equal to at least the amount it'd cost to have the the spell permanency affect whatever spell will be affected. In addition, the GM may require each scroll of permanency to specify the spell that permanency spell will make permanent.

### Option 2: Use services

• 1 casting of the 2nd-level spell invisibility by a level 3 caster (60 gp).
• 1 casting of the 5th-level spell permanency on the spell invisibility by a level 10 caster plus material components (5,450 gp).

### Option 3: Do it yourself

• 1 casting of the 2nd-level spell invisibility at any caster level up to your own.
• 1 casting of the 5th-level spell permanency on the spell invisibility at any caster level that's at least 10
• Material components costing 5,000 gp for the spell permanency on the spell invisibility.

Option 1 costs a total of 6,400 gp. Option 2 ideally costs 5,510 gp. (I say ideally because were I a wizard who loves money I wouldn't cast permanency on some low-level punk wizard's invisibility spell; I'd make you pay for one of my far better solid, robust, dependable, level 10 invisibility spells. You don't want to skimp, do you? This will be permanent, after all.) (Tip: In the world of Pathfinder durations, permanent only means permanent until dispelled.) Option 3 costs only 5,000 gp, but you've to be an appropriate level 10 caster (necessary, in all cases, because of the minimum level needed to affect an invisibility spell with a permanency spell).

• Would not the dispel DC be for the permanency spell caster level and not the invisibility caster level? Jul 28, 2016 at 13:15
• @Fering The dispel check's DC for the permanency spell is, in fact, based on the caster level of the permanency spell and not on the caster level of the spell that's been made permanent. Is there something in the answer that implies otherwise? (Yes, that parenthetical wizard is sort of gouging his customers, but were his permanency spell dispelled, his invisibility spell would continue afterward much longer than the 3rd-level wizard's would!) Jul 28, 2016 at 13:22
• There is little to no chance of getting permanency back in place before the spell wore off so the increased caster level for duration isnt really helpful Jul 28, 2016 at 14:30
• @Fering I know. That's how he's gouging. If the parenthetical is distracting, I can remove it. But I do think, for role-playing purposes, a prima donna wizard might be huffy about casting permanency on another wizard's spell. Jul 28, 2016 at 14:37
• I was actually hoping to get one of the party members to do the invisibility spell because it is far more common Jul 28, 2016 at 14:53