What stats should I give to a vampire who was just embraced? For example, if a player sought permission from the Prince successfully (no matter how he did it...), or if he is a Sabbat member who is mass embracing. Should I generate him just as I would generate a normal character?

Someone told me that Camarilla neonates/fledglings built at character creation actually aren't that young, they already spent some time being vampires. He also told me that Sabbat shovelheads typically have just Disciplines on level one, and are typically weak. I asked him to support his point by an official source, and he responded with "No, you!"

What do the books say about it?

If vampires get those 3 free dots of Disciplines when embraced, are they already familiar with them, how to use them, etc.? With things such as Potence, Fortitude or Celerity it's obvious, but can one understand how to use, say, Obfuscate or Thaumaturgy when just embraced? In the same case, why don't vampires ghoul potential embraces before it happens so they get 1 more in-clan discipline dot and Potence?


2 Answers 2


Your friend is correct that neonate is not the rank of a new Camarilla vampire; they're called fledglings.

However, the difference is merely legal-social — a fledgling is still the responsibility of their sire, with all the actions of the fledgling attributed to the sire. This keeps sires motivated to keep their childer in line and to teach them how to be functional members of vampire society.

Notably, there is no power difference — again, the distinction is only social (VtM20, p. 19):

A neonate is a young vampire, one who has not been Kindred very long. The main difference between a neonate and a fledgling is that the neonate has been emancipated from her sire and otherwise is seen as an “adult” in vampire society. The line between fledgling and neonate is incredibly subjective.

The stats of a fledgling vampire then would be the same as of a neonate. However, VtM is not a strict rules-as-written kind of game; when the Storyteller is doing something non-standard, the Storyteller is expected to make the necessary adjustments that make sense. In particular, you should decide which abilities on the PC's sheet require teaching, and not allow them to be used (or not used at full pip strength) by the fledgling until receiving that teaching from their sire.

Though this focuses on Camarilla, the fundamental nature of a fledgling doesn't change when you look at Sabbat — it's still a social distinction. A Sabbat fledgling may have a harder time learning their bloodline's abilities of course, but self-discovery is a good, if harsh, teacher and befits the situation of a shovelhead.


It's better, I think, to ask, "What are the stats of a mortal before the Embrace, and how do they differ?" As detailed in Ghouls and Revenants (and many, many books beforehand), a mortal is built on 6/4/3 Attributes and 11/7/4 Abilities. If a ghoul, they start with one dot in a relevant discipline. The embrace, therefore, boosts their stats accordingly.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Aye, I quoted the "I Was Embraced Yesterday" part of page 500 of the Corebook, but my friend told me that it's for characters who were used to play for some time already, and shovelheads have two Disciplines on level 1, nothing more. But are there the actual stats for the newly embraced vampire anywhere in the books? Or should I go with standard vampire character creation as in the beginning of the Corebook? That was my question. \$\endgroup\$ Aug 17, 2016 at 22:13
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Baskakov_Dmitriy Your friend is relying on information from earlier materials—some of it from 1st Edition; that's the cause of the difference of opinion. There's no reason not to use the standard vampire character creation rules to create a newly embraced Vampire. \$\endgroup\$
    – Jadasc
    Aug 17, 2016 at 22:17

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