32
\$\begingroup\$

For example a Dagger is listed in the "Melee" section of the weapons list, but has the "light", "Finesse" and "Thrown" properties.

If I throw the dagger (assume I am proficient), can I use the sharpshooter feat to take -5 to hit for +10 damage?

Sharpshooter

  • Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.
  • Your ranged weapon attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover.
  • Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage

Please be sure to quote any RAW with your answer.

\$\endgroup\$
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ This question also applies to the Fighter's "Archery" fighting style. \$\endgroup\$ – mattdm Sep 19 '17 at 23:50
43
\$\begingroup\$

No, you can't take the -5/+10 while throwing a dagger.

Thrown: If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack.

Throwing a dagger is a ranged weapon attack, so the first two benefits of the Sharpshooter feat will apply. However, the third benefit doesn't require a ranged weapon attack:

  • Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage.

It specifically requires that you attack with a ranged weapon. The thrown property doesn't change the fact that a dagger is a melee weapon. Throwing a dart, for example, would benefit from the -5/+10, because it's a ranged weapon. The thrown property isn't what's important here - what's important is whether the weapon is a ranged weapon or not.

If you prefer to hear it from the designers, Jeremy Crafowrd agrees that the first two benefits of Sharpshooter work with daggers, but not the 3rd. He also stated that a dagger is a melee weapon, even when you throw it, as well as including it in the official Sage Advice Compendium:

Does the Archery fighting style work with a melee weapon that you throw? No, the Archery feature benefits ranged weapons. A melee weapon, such as a dagger or handaxe, is still a melee weapon when you make a ranged attack with it.

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Sep 7 '16 at 20:54
15
\$\begingroup\$

No.

On twitter, talking about ranged weapons for Sneak Attack, Jeremy Crawford said:

A ranged weapon is under either of the headings in the Weapon table (PH, 149) that says "Ranged Weapons.

However, that isn't the end of the story. Mike Mearls answered the sharpshooter dagger question like this:

It might feel unintuitive for the bonus damage, but it doesn't break anything

Now, Mike Mearls isn't the athority on the rules. Jeremy is. Jeremy disagrees with Mike, and so the answer is no:

Sharpshooter feat—the first two benefits work with a ranged attack with any weapon, including a dagger. #DnD

So, what does this mean? RAW, no it doesn't get the third benefit. But, allowing it isn't game breaking and is a reasonable thing a DM might do.

\$\endgroup\$
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ sageadvice.eu/2015/06/20/ranged-and-thrown-weapon "A melee weapon with the thrown property is still a melee weapon when you throw it." so a dagger is not a ranged weapon even if you throw it. So, RAW, it doesn't get the third benefit. \$\endgroup\$ – Protonflux Jul 24 '17 at 16:41
-2
\$\begingroup\$

Yes

From the PHB, Weapons, p146:

... A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet of you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance." ...

A ranged weapon is used to attack at range. If you attack a target at range, you are, by definition, using a ranged weapon.

\$\endgroup\$
-2
\$\begingroup\$

No. Any melee weapon with the listing thrown gets 3rd sharpshooter ability because as long as you are proficient with the weapon, thrown is a ranged attack with a melee weapon.

\$\endgroup\$

Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to rpg.se. Take the tour, it's a useful introduction to the site. We expect/require answers to be backed up with citations. Can you edit in and quote the relevant rules to provide some backup for this answer? \$\endgroup\$ – Purple Monkey May 14 at 22:57
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ This might very well be correct but it would be useful to explain how you're reaching this conclusion. \$\endgroup\$ – Mark Wells May 14 at 23:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ The answer of "Any melee weapon with the listing thrown gets 3rd sharpshooter ability" also seems to contradict the statements before and after it; Sharpshooter's last benefit specifically applies to attacks with ranged weapons, not melee ones. \$\endgroup\$ – V2Blast May 15 at 0:00
-2
\$\begingroup\$

Yes.

A ranged weapon uses the Dexterity modifier for attack and damage rolls. Thus weapons in the "Melee" section become a "Ranged Weapon" if thrown (and can allow proficiency if they have the Thrown property with a listed short/long range).

See WEAPONS (PHB P.14)

  • For attacks with melee weapons, use your Strength modifier for attack and damage rolls. A weapon that has the finesse property, such as a rapier, can use your Dexterity modifier instead.
  • For attacks with ranged weapons, use your Dexterity modifier for attack and damage rolls. A weapon that has the thrown property, such as a handaxe, can use your Strength modifier instead.

Notice in the above quote "for attacks with ranged weapons" it lists handaxe (a weapon with the thrown property listed in the melee weapon section).

This is important to note as the sharpshooter feat has 3 properties. The first 2 properties talk about range weapon attack rolls and range weapon attacks. The 3rd property (and the one specifically asked about) a ranged weapon you are proficient with. Thus thrown improvised weapons (i.e. melee weapons without the thrown property) will not be valid for the 3rd property.

Not that you asked but in addition you can also use TWF (PHB P.195):

Two-Weapon Fighting When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage o f the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead o f making a melee attack with it.

Thus you can make 2 thrown attacks (Daggers) with -5 to hit +10 damage (although the off-hand does not have str/dex bonus added to damage).

Bottom line: Based on RAW only, there should be no confusion on this. A ranged weapon is one where you use DEX for atk/dam - says so in PHB p14 (unless it has other specific properties - i.e. "Thrown", where its still a ranged weapon but can use STR). The above question didnt ask about other DM or designers point of view, just RAW. If you hit someone with a bat its a melee weapon, if you toss the bat at someone its a range weapon. For the purpose of the feat (sharpshooter) you need proficiency as well, thus a melee weapon needs the "Thrown" property in order to become a ranged weapon and allow proficiency.

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Sep 7 '16 at 20:52
-5
\$\begingroup\$

Officially, thrown weapons count as ranged weapons for all purposes.

Citation: http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/20/ranged-and-thrown-weapon/

\$\endgroup\$
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Can you support this answer with citations to the rules? I.e., what's the "official" statement you're basing your answer on? \$\endgroup\$ – nitsua60 Sep 9 '16 at 1:31
  • \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to rpg.se! Please look over the tour at your convenience. Your brief answer, though it may be correct, shows no supporting evidence. Citing a reference, and page number preferably, and even a good quote, can go a long way to making a helpful answer. \$\endgroup\$ – Chemus Sep 9 '16 at 3:29
  • 4
    \$\begingroup\$ The citation disproved your statement. "A melee weapon with the thrown property is still a melee weapon". "before you make a ranged weapon attack that you are proficient with..." \$\endgroup\$ – Shem Feb 27 '17 at 21:18

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.