4
\$\begingroup\$

If I understand correctly then Intimidate (demoralization -> shaken condition) is mind-effecting fear effect. As per Bold Stare (Psychic Inception) description states that such targets can be targeted with spell and abilities. Does that mean, that as level 3 Mesmerist I can intimidate Undead, Construct, Vermin, etc. creatures with Intimidation check giving them shaken condition?

Psychic Inception: The hypnotic stare and its penalty can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects (such as an undead or vermin). The mesmerist can also partially affect such a creature with his mind-affecting spells and abilities if it's under the effect of his hypnotic stare; it gains a +2 bonus on its saving throw (if any), and if affected, it still has a 50% chance each round of ignoring the effect. Ignoring the effect doesn't end the effect, but does allow the creature to act normally for that round.

Improve this question
\$\endgroup\$
3
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to the site. Take the tour. I see you've tagged this rule-as-written and pathfinder-society. Those two tags don't often go together. Are you wondering if this is an option recognized in organized play? Or are you trying to determine if the rules legally spell out that this is allowed, heedless of logic and common sense? Or did you just want an answer? (If you only want an answer, you can omit both the rules-as-written and pathfinder-society tags.) Thank you for participating and have fun. \$\endgroup\$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    Sep 11, 2016 at 4:30
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ I wondering if this an option that can be used in organized play. I wanted to create Mesmerist that can Intimidate anyone (to some degree) while taret under his hypnotic stare, but if Psychic Inception does not allow me to do it, i probably gonna play something different. \$\endgroup\$
    – Awertum
    Sep 11, 2016 at 4:51
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Okay, so having reread this again, I think your question comes down to this: Is the making an Intimidate skill check to demoralize a foe an ability? I can see fist fights at the table now. Thanks for removing the rule-as-written tag from this! \$\endgroup\$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    Sep 11, 2016 at 7:34

3 Answers 3

Reset to default
2
\$\begingroup\$

Yes.

What is an ability is not defined by a game term.

Skills represent some of the most basic and yet most fundamental abilities your character possesses.

Skills are considered abilities for all purposes where the rules references simply to "abilities".

We can see proof of this on a bunch of texts scattered through the books An example being the Downtime Rules from Ultimate Campaign:

Downtime Terminology This section explains the basic game terms for the downtime system. It uses existing character abilities (such as skill checks and saving throws), familiar resources (such as gold pieces), and new resources specific to the downtime system. Together, these allow you to accomplish tasks.

Or even on the Core Rulebook, when defining Feats:

Feat: A feat is an ability a creature has mastered. Feats often allow creatures to circumvent rules or restrictions. Creatures receive a number of feats based off their Hit Dice, but some classes and other abilities grant bonus feats.

Special Abilities, on the other hand are defined as either Extraordinary, Supernatural or Spell-like. So if an effect calls for special abilities, it must be referencing to abilities that are either Ex, Su or Sp.

But otherwise, everything your character can do is considered an ability.

There is more information about abilities on this thread on paizo's forum.

The Psychic Inception says:

Psychic Inception: The hypnotic stare and its penalty can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects (such as an undead or vermin). The mesmerist can also partially affect such a creature with his mind-affecting spells and abilities if it's under the effect of his hypnotic stare

As defined on this FAQ entry (thanks @Detterm for pointing this out), Intimidate applies a fear effect and is also considered a mind-affecting ability, and fully qualifies on the restrictions of Psychic Inception.

Unless an errata is issued at a latter date to fix the text of the ability, Psychic Inception does affect Intimidate.

Improve this answer
\$\endgroup\$
2
\$\begingroup\$

Intimidate is a skill, not a spell or ability, and so doesn't get the 50% chance to succeed with the +2 DC penalty. The DC for the target's saving throw is still technically modified (-2 or -3), but since they're mindless, no saving throw is required, because they're immune to morale changes.

Psychic Inception is used to boost your mind-affecting spells and abilities, giving them a chance to affect mindless creatures. If you had another way of affecting morale by way of a spell or ability, that would override the creature's natural ability to ignore morale changes, and they'd have a 50% chance of their morale being affected every turn.

As an example, you could use Hypnotic Stare, then cast Haunting Mists to cause Wisdom damage (most likely harmless), and apply the Shaken effect to the target. They'd have a 50% chance to ignore it each round, but they'd still be potentially affected. You could also use Scare to cause a mindless target to be Frightened.

While not being able to use Intimidate might seem a bit of a setback, once you realize how useful a mesmerist can be against the mindless, it's not necessarily a total waste. Given the right campaign or environment, a mesmerist would have a lot of opportunity to shine.

Improve this answer
\$\endgroup\$
1
  • \$\begingroup\$ The first part of this answer is wrong. Skills are abilities, just as feats, reflex/ fortitude and will, proficiencies and so on. The text should have said "special abilities" to exclude skills from being affected. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    Sep 15, 2016 at 15:10
1
\$\begingroup\$

Skills represent some of the most basic and yet most fundamental abilities your character possesses.

Skills are abilities as well. I see no reason it wouldn't work.

Improve this answer
\$\endgroup\$
13
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ That's a nice definition for it. But ability on that context is not a game term, like it is when describing a special class ability such as the Stare ability of Mesmerists. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    Sep 15, 2016 at 11:41
  • \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to the site! Please take a spin through the tour when you get a chance. \$\endgroup\$
    – UrhoKarila
    Sep 15, 2016 at 12:42
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ I guess we have to agree to disagree on that one. The only related glossary entry would be "Special Abilities" (and its subtypes). The mesmerists stare doesn't only enable special abilities, but abilities in general. The most fundamental abilities would be a characters skills. \$\endgroup\$
    – Detterm
    Sep 15, 2016 at 13:42
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ The catch is that the ability needs to be mind-affecting. So far only intimidate was confirmed to be. \$\endgroup\$
    – Detterm
    Sep 15, 2016 at 13:50
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Last entry: paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9svt \$\endgroup\$
    – Detterm
    Sep 15, 2016 at 13:54

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .