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Let us say the barbarian in the group took a lot of damage in a fight. Maybe due to several hits or even a critical hit or two.

Can you use treat deadly wound (1 hour) and later spend 8 more hours for long-term care to regain hit points? To me it appears as if they are two different sources of regaining hit points, but that the character needs to be quite beaten to qualify for being treated as if deadly wounded.

I see no restrictions to what treat deadly wounds qualifies to treat and not. Damage and loss of hit points is not a complex thing in D&D if not using called shot rules. I`ve read in forums that others say that generally loss of hit point represents the character being worn down.

As answered here by Pulsehead on the topic on treating several people with deadly wounds:

This is different from getting cut and needing a few stitches. Treat Deadly Wounds is a character's Aorta is nicked/cut. They are bleeding out. You need both hands on the wounded character, your attention to keep them awake/alert (so they don't pass out/go into shock) and frequently you need someone else to pass you stuff as necessary.

Doesn´t a injury of this kind represent dropping to -1 hp and bleeding 1 hp a round? Of course you can be dropped to -1 and bleed out and the GM says its because of a cut vein (great roleplaying flavour!), but then again you need to use heal to first stabilizing the character before using treat deadly wound right? As the character would die in 10 rounds and 1 hour would take to long as it does not stop the bleeding? You need first aid for that first (Not considering a hit point loss of 1 per hour here).

So a new scenario:

  1. The barbarian kills the boss but drops to -1 hp and bleeds for 1 hp a round.
  2. A party member runs over and use the heal skill: First aid to top the bleeding.

Provide First Aid

You usually use first aid to save a dying character. If a character has negative hit points and is losing hit points (at the rate of 1 per round, 1 per hour, or 1 per day), you can make him stable. A stable character regains no hit points but stops losing them. First aid also stops a character from losing hit points due to effects that cause bleed.

Action/Time: 1 standard action.

  1. Next the same party member begins "treating deadly wound" with the heal skill taking one full hour of work spending two charges of his healer´s kit.

Treat Deadly Wounds*

Requirement: You must expend two uses from a healer's kit to perform this task. You take a –2 penalty on your check for each use from a healer's kit that you lack.

When treating deadly wounds, you can restore hit points to a damaged creature. Treating deadly wounds restores 1 hit point per level of the creature. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more, add your Wisdom modifier (if positive) to this amount. A creature can only benefit from its deadly wounds being treated within 24 hours of being injured and never more than once per day.

Action/Time: 1 hour.

  1. After one hour the same party member decides to put the barbarian to bed with a fresh cold mug of mead and begin to perform Long-term care.

Provide Long-Term Care

Providing long-term care means treating a wounded person for a day or more. If your Heal check is successful, the patient recovers hit points or ability score points (lost to ability damage) at twice the normal rate: 2 hit points per level for a full 8 hours of rest in a day, or 4 hit points per level for each full day of complete rest; 2 ability score points for a full 8 hours of rest in a day, or 4 ability score points for each full day of complete rest.

You can tend as many as six patients at a time. You need a few items and supplies (bandages, salves, and so on) that are easy to come by in settled lands. Giving long-term care counts as light activity for the healer. You cannot give long-term care to yourself.

Action/Time: 8 hours.

I see nothing that states that you can´t do all of this in the following order. Or do you have to choose to either treat deadly wounds or using long-term care? (as long as the GM and players agree to that the amount of lost hit points "qualifies" as a deadly wound I see no reason as to not use both in as separate actions).

I think it´s a matter of judgement and perspective as RAW does not have any clear lines to this subject.

Any thoughts?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to the site! Please take the tour when you get a chance. I replaced the Pathfinder Society tag with the Pathfinder tag, since it sounded like your question was about the Pathfinder ruleset in general, rather than the rules as specifically applied when playing in Pathfinder Society (the Pathfinder organized play group). If you were asking specifically about Pathfinder Society, you should use the edit button just below the tags to add that tag back to the question (don't remove the general Pathfinder tag, though, since that's the relevant game system). \$\endgroup\$ – Oblivious Sage Sep 13 '16 at 18:29
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    \$\begingroup\$ I would answer with a "Yes", but you already quoted all the relevant rules. Is this actually a question or "prove that my gm is wrong" topic? \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras Sep 13 '16 at 18:32
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yes this is a normal question of game mechanics. I just feel it is to good to be true, but still I hope it is so. I like the logic behind the thought of using both. All I want is a experts opinion. I do not see why "prove that my gm is wrong-topic"" is relevant for my question since I do not mention it, plus that such a matter is irreleveant to the question in hand (btw im the GM and just wondered). Thanks for the reply! Appreciated. \$\endgroup\$ – Joe Sep 13 '16 at 18:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Joe, it is unclear what exactly your question is, especially given that you have done enough research to provide a full answer. Stack Exchange is not a site for opinion-based answers, so if all you want is an opinion you might be better off seeking other RPG forums. \$\endgroup\$ – GreedyRadish Sep 13 '16 at 18:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ My question is: "Can a player use the Heal skill to treat deadly wounds and use long-term care in the same day?" Does RAW say anything about if you can or can´t? \$\endgroup\$ – Joe Sep 13 '16 at 18:43
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Yes.

Thats the mundane way of recovering wounds from battle. Also called Natural Healing. Any character can recover wounds by resting for 8 hours, limited to once per day, regardless of how much he rests or how much aid he recieves.

The Heal skill simply allows a wounded character to recover faster.

You will notice that Treat Deadly Wounds says the character must recieve treatment no more than once per day, and no longer than 24 hours after being wounded. Which specifically prevents that type of treatment from being used more than once.

But for Long-term Care there is no restriction, other than spend 8 hours treating the patient(s). That is actually the slowest form of healing available.

Also keep in mind that the character recovering for 8 hours will recover only his double healing rate (2 hp per level) from your Long-Term Care, and not the quadruple (4 hp per level), as he requires a full day of complete rest.

For a complete rest, the character must make no stressing activity for the day if you want to recover. What is a stressing activity is left to the GM, but most assume that any skill check, combat, travel or spellcasting counts as stressing.

You can even Provide Long-Term Care with your downtime. Or while Travelling (which is a common use of the skill), as that is considered light activity for the healer.

Giving long-term care counts as light activity for the healer.

Which means you could even treat someone while recieving long-term care yourself. You simply cannot treat yourself this way, or recieve quadruple the healing as that requires complete rest.

A Mobile Hospital can be used to double the amount healed aswell.

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    \$\begingroup\$ But can you use Treat deadly wounds as a seperate action before using long-term care in the same day? \$\endgroup\$ – Joe Sep 13 '16 at 18:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ If you have time, there is nothing preventing that. There is no "heal can only be used once per patient" on long-term care. Deadly wounds does say you can only use it within 24 hours of being wounded and no more than once per day, which limits it's use on multiple days. \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras Sep 13 '16 at 18:52
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks alot for the reply! So one can regain alot of hit points in 9 hours using the heal skill. I feel players heavily underestimate the use of the heal skill if magical healing is scarce. \$\endgroup\$ – Joe Sep 13 '16 at 18:59
  • \$\begingroup\$ My players heavily invest on Heal during the first 3 levels, unless they have a cleric or witch on the group. When they don't, they have to rest for days to fully recover from the combats. Thats why some GM's start their games at lv2 or lv3, or give maximum hit points per level. \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras Sep 13 '16 at 19:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ Sounds reasonable. If the campaign is very focused around combat I can see that heal wont cut it in the long run. In my campaign divine magic is weakened each century, making heal a important skill to have. I balance the campaign between 60% combat and 40% social encounters and skill useage, so the party usually get a few days to recover. But the party can pick their fights ofc, so they can fight as much as they want, but at a cost. \$\endgroup\$ – Joe Sep 13 '16 at 19:18

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