When I cast a toppling magic missile and use spell perfection to make it quickened as well, what numerical bonuses are there that would be doubled by spell perfection that would help with the CMB roll for toppling?

Improved trip should work, because it is a feat that applies to trip attempts, which is part of a toppling magic missile.

I think feats that increase the CL of magic missile (like spell specialization) should be doubled, too before using resulting CL as BAB for the trip, right?

Are there other feats I might be missing?

  • \$\begingroup\$ Is there a reason why links to archives of nethys are edited to d20pfsrd ones? The latter often do not use the correct names, after all. I know this is because of copyright issues but still it is less reliable for some pieces of information because of that. \$\endgroup\$
    – Umbranus
    Sep 23, 2016 at 11:01
  • \$\begingroup\$ It helps prevent link-rot - 3rd party sites may go down, or be taken down. The idea is to make links that will last for as long as possible and the SRD would generally be considered the 'safest' I think. \$\endgroup\$
    – Phlyk
    Sep 23, 2016 at 11:07
  • \$\begingroup\$ Archives of Nethys has a record of better uptime than d20pfsrd though. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    Sep 23, 2016 at 11:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ There is no good reason to change them. Feel free and revert the links if you want. \$\endgroup\$
    – mxyzplk
    Sep 23, 2016 at 12:25
  • \$\begingroup\$ I stand corrected in that case, I used a third-party site in one of my early answers and they were changed to the SRD for this reason. \$\endgroup\$
    – Phlyk
    Sep 23, 2016 at 12:56

1 Answer 1



None of those variables is a set numerical bonus. They are dynamic bonuses.

  • your caster level, could be 1, 2, 10, etc;
  • your wisdom bonus, could be +1, +2, +10, etc.

The keywords here are feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus.

if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

That excludes nearly all metamagic feats (those that increase the spell level), that is already covered by the first part of the feat:

you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level.

So, that already covers nearly all metamagics and feats that are a variable bonus.

I think feats that increase the CL of magic missile (like spell specialization) should be doubled, too before using resulting CL as BAB for the trip, right?

If it's not a metamagic, yes.

For instance, these feats would get their bonuses doubled when casting the Perfected Spell:

  • \$\begingroup\$ The "other feats" clause could still include metamagics, just not the same metamagic that you applied for free. \$\endgroup\$
    – Topquark
    Sep 23, 2016 at 12:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ @topquark If its a metamagic, it will affect the spell level, meaning that it will not count as the free metamagic from Spell Perfection. Since you cannot apply the same metamagic again, you won't get the benefits twice. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    Sep 23, 2016 at 13:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ Say that we Perfect Quicken a Empowered Fireball (3rd -> 5th), that would be a 9th level slot, but since it's perfected, it still uses a 5th level slot. But will not increase the damage by 50% then by another 50%, since the source of this increase is the same feat (empower spell). It's also not a set number. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    Sep 23, 2016 at 13:38
  • \$\begingroup\$ Let's pick a metamagic that unambiguously is a "set numerical bonus" (unlike Empower): Tenebrous Spell grants +1 DC and +1 CL; it costs +1 slot-level and some usage restrictions. Say that we Perfect Quicken a Tenebrous Fireball. It takes a 4th-level slot, since the Quicken is free, and Tenebrous is paid for the normal way. Tenebrous is not Perfection's free metamagic, therefore Tenebrous does qualify as an "other feat which allows you to apply a set numerical bonus". So Tenebrous's bonus is doubled (which is not the same thing as "applied again"), to +2 DC and +2 CL. \$\endgroup\$
    – Topquark
    Sep 23, 2016 at 15:11
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ I am trying to apply Tenebrous once and only once. I am paying its spell-slot adjustment the normal way, not asking for a discount. And then Spell Perfection doubles the benefit of that single instance of Tenebrous. Just like Spell Perfection's examples (Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus): If Perfection gave you a 2nd copy of Spell Focus, it wouldn't stack. In order for the doubling clause to do anything ever, it must operate by modifying your single instance of Spell Focus to provide a +2 bonus instead of +1. And that sort of modification is just as applicable to metamagics. \$\endgroup\$
    – Topquark
    Sep 23, 2016 at 20:00

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