Consider the scenario:

A Toreador and a Lasombra are engaged in a fight. The Lasombra uses her Shroud of Night (Obtenebration level 3) to cover the area with pitch black shadows.

The question is:

Will Entrancement (Presence level 3) work to help the (otherwise probably doomed) Toreador?

According to the VtM 3rd edition, a Lasombra using Shroud of Night can see inside her own shadows. The book says that sounds are muffled, but does not make it clear if they are muffled only to others or also to the Lasombra casting it. I understand that if she is able to see inside that shadowed area, she may also be able to hear normally (in her shadows). Is this correct?

Nevertheless, Presence requires the Toreador to be visible (the book mentions that someone affected by Presence can easily resist it by turning her back to the vampire and stop looking at him).

So, am I right to assume that Presence can be useful for the Toreador in the aforementioned combat?

  • \$\begingroup\$ The discipline descriptions never said that the Lasombra can see in his own shadow. \$\endgroup\$
    – Mu_
    Commented Oct 9, 2016 at 12:39
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @Mu_ I just double checked the book (pg. 168) and it states that: "Note: Lasombra vampires can see through the darkness they control, though other Lasombra cannot." \$\endgroup\$ Commented Oct 9, 2016 at 22:46

1 Answer 1


Using the 20th Anniversary edition, I see nothing that dictates a range or line of sight in Will Entrancement. The only limits seem to be the implication that the targets know the Kindred is there and be reasonably close to them, and of course that the Kindred is no further than three generations lower than any target.

Presence Description pg193

The major drawback of Presence is that it controls only the emotions. It causes others to feel a certain way toward the vampire.

Other than specific descriptions of other discipline levels, such as acting menacing for Dread Gaze or becoming more beautiful for Majesty requiring sight.

There are the die roll penalties associated with Obtenebration such as the potential 1 die fear penalty and associated panic, the 2 Stamina penalty, and zero visibility since it cancels Auspex, Protean, and Serpentis as well but only the fear effect should stop Will Entrancement specifically

I did come across a mention of seeing a target for Dominate in a sidebar on pg152 but it only applied to Dominate and there was no such sidebar in Presence.


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