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So here is what I want to do. There is a magic item in the mythic magic items which functions similar to the metamagic rods. I have been looking into if it is possible to use the ring of transcendent spells with spells cast from a wand. The ring of transcendent spells is similar to a metamagic rod as there is a metamagic feat called Ascendant spell which turns non-mythic spells into base mythic spells (no augmented versions).

So first I found that a wand can be created with a spell modified by a metamagic feat.

In the Core rule book on page 113, Which can also be found online with similar wording.

Magic Items and Metamagic Spells: With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn’t need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of a spell.

So magic items can contain metamagic feats. What about when the item is made not containing the MM? Are you able to activate the wand and use your MM feat to alter the spell? The answer is clearly no as it breaks spell levels and cost.

The modifications made by these feats only apply to spells cast directly by the feat user. A spellcaster can't use a metamagic feat to alter a spell being cast from a wand, scroll, or other device.

What about costly items which are already restricted then? Could the metamagic rods be used when casting a spell from a wand? This answer has not come up with any answers. There is evidence from 3.5 that this is not allowed, but I have not found anything specifically in Pathfinder which states this. I only found one discussion board but had no solution.

So without having an answer to the MM rods working on wands, I am not able to determine if spells from wands can be modified by external effects when the cost has been paid for.

Can anyone offer me the last little bit I need to figure out if I can make a non-mythic wand cast mythic versions when I have paid external costs? I suspect that the answer is no as this was not allowed in 3.5, but Pathfinder is not actually 3.5 and I would like to find out.

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Activating a metamagic rod gives you “the ability to use the given feat,” which would then be subject to the rules for the use of metamagic feats—including the one you quote forbidding their use with spells cast out of items. So no, you could not do this. Generally speaking, the only way to cast a metamagic’d spell from an item is to create an item specifically containing that spell already metamagic’d (and paying for the increase in spell level, accordingly).

However, the ring of transcendant spells is worded differently. It does not specify that it allows you to use a metamagic feat—in fact, it doesn’t specify that it’s applying a metamagic effect at all. It just modifies spells you cast, and you do cast spells from wands and scrolls. Thus, it could be applied spells cast from magic items.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ The ring is not worded that way however and is a special case, I was simply seeing what similar cases might be \$\endgroup\$
    – Fering
    Oct 17, 2016 at 18:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Fering Right you are, missed the mention of the ring in the question. Updated my answer. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Oct 17, 2016 at 18:24
  • \$\begingroup\$ So, there is enough vagueness that a DM needs to rule for it. That was my thought but wanted to make sure I wasnt missing any references, rules, or FAQ's/erratas before I presented to them. \$\endgroup\$
    – Fering
    Oct 17, 2016 at 22:41
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Fering What vagueness do you see? Metamagic feats explicitly cannot affect magic-derived spells, metamagic rods explicitly follow the rules of using the feats themselves and so share that restriction, and ring of transcendance explicitly involves no metamagic at all and is therefore unrestricted by the rules that restrict metamagic, and can thus affect magic-derived spells. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Oct 17, 2016 at 23:24
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Fering This is an exception-based ruleset; you can do nothing, under the rules, unless there is a rule starting an exception where you can. Then you can do that thing, unless there is an exception saying you cannot. Here, you have two things saying you can do things to spells you cast—these are both exceptions to the ordinary spellcasting rules, which don't allow you to change spells you cast. However, one of them, metamagic, has an exception for item-derived spells, so you cannot use it on them. The other has no such exception. There is no vagueness: that means you can use them. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Oct 18, 2016 at 11:35

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