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Reaching Archmage 4 I can choose Divine Source which is suggested in many builds since it is (apparently) very powerful. I have read this now a few times but do not really understand how it is working and how to apply it.

  1. You can grant divine spells to those who follow your cause, allowing them to select you as their deity for the purposes of determining their spells and domains.

    • Many of the domain spells are not divine; do the arcane spells change somehow to a divine source or something?
    • If I want to grant divine spells from the chosen domain to my paladin (of Iomedae) he has to choose me as his deity. Will he lose the favor of Iomedae? Does he have to pray to my wizard from now on?
  2. Since I am a wizard I have most of these spells on my list already. So is the main advantage to get some divine spells on your list and one more spell slot via the SLAs?

    Each day as a spell-like ability, you can cast one spell of each level equal to or less than your tier (selecting from those available to you from your divine source domains).

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So divine source is powerful to you (as long as you have some neutrality). To followers, until you have tier 9, not so much.

You get to pick two domains. You have to choose any alignment domains matching your own alignment first, but if you have some neutrality, you get to pick at least one domain freely. If you are true neutral, you get to pick both freely. If you have no neutrality, you are forced to pick an alignment domain for both, and they miss out on the most powerful feature of divine source.

From these two domains,

  1. You get to cast the spells from that domain whose level are not above your tier (so the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th-level spells from each domain at tier 4). Even if they aren’t otherwise on your list. That’s really nice; you get two new spells per tier that might have otherwise been completely inaccessible.

  2. In addition, for each spell level that’s not higher than your tier, 1/day you can cast the spell from one or the other of the domains as a spell-like ability. That is a really big deal: spell-like abilities don’t have components, so feel free to grab domains that have expensive components and go to town.

(Note that the wording is unclear, and it may have been the intent that the spell-like casting is just how divine source lets you cast these spells, not a separate feature from the ability to cast them as spells normally. However, as-written, they seem to be separate and you get both the ability to cast these spells as spells from your normal slots, plus the ability to cast a spell of each level as a spell-like ability from its own daily pool.)

For followers, it’s a much less good deal. You might offer an unusual selection of domains (if you are true neutral), but that isn’t really all that valuable (you could be a cleric of an ideal for that). The cap on spell levels to your tier makes it a pretty terrible option for most would-be followers. Also, note that divine source gives followers no new ability to have domains in the first place: they have to have levels in cleric or something similar for it to mean anything.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks for your answer and clarification. Your are right, that is a big deal! Just to compeletely understand as an Archmage 4, I get 8 new spells (in case I would not have them yet) from the domains and I do not get the Granted Powers of the domains. \$\endgroup\$ – ruedi Jan 5 '17 at 14:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ Concerning the benefits of followers you forget about the big advantage you can have that your divinity is walking in the streets and can mug your opponents if they are too nasty. Having a powerful patron is one thing, but having a far more present yet a little less powerful one in interesting too ! \$\endgroup\$ – Anne Aunyme Jan 5 '17 at 16:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ @AnneAunyme Sure, for low-level followers I suppose that does make sense. \$\endgroup\$ – KRyan Jan 5 '17 at 16:55
  • \$\begingroup\$ I will disagree that alignment spells are awful. But wont argue over it. \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras Jan 6 '17 at 11:13
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Shadow Kras I said the alignment domains, not alignment spells. But even then, I was remembering how bad they are for a cleric (who gets very few new spells from them). In this case they're not bad. Still miss out on the best feature here though. \$\endgroup\$ – KRyan Jan 6 '17 at 13:19
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About the spells you get

This ability is the occasion to acquire spells you usually can't cast as a wizard. You can add them to your wizard list* (sometimes they will already be on it, but often that means new spells you can't get other way, and in this case you cast them just like your other arcane spells) and most of all you get them as spell-like abilities (which means they don't have any material component costs, you don't have to speak nor move to cast them, they can't be counter-spelled and don't take your slots; but as a downside you can't use most of your feats/mythic abilities and can't apply metamagic to them).

At low mythic ranks it makes you able to do the job of a missing cleric by casting stuff like Protection Against Evil and at high ranks if you get Miracle as a spell-like it gets completely broken. It has a very good synergy with Paragon too (a mythic feat that makes you count as 2 mythic ranks higher so you get 2 more divine spell levels).

About granting spells

Anyone with a divine spellcasting class can choose you as a deity, and thus will take their power from you. They will have their own class list of spells which you don't necessarily get from domains.

The Paladin can choose you as a deity (as long as you are within one step on Lawful Good) but Iomedae probably won't agree to him remaining in both the two cults. As Paladins' class powers don't rely on their divinity as Clerics' do that's not necessarily a problem.

This part of the ability is not really powerful in a system point of view, but it is awesome in a roleplay one. Just don't go to Rahadoum or you will be in trouble.

*This point is quite ambiguous. RAW the archmage adds them but one can read the text as it was intended that she only can cast them as spell-like abilities.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ About “You don’t add them to your wizard list,” I’m not so sure. The text says “In addition, you can cast spells from domains you grant as long as their level is equal to or less than your tier.” The following sentence describes casting as SLAs, but it in no way indicates that it is a description, clarification, or qualification of the previous sentence, which just says you can cast spells from domains you grant, period. And the way the tier 6 and 9 benefits are handled (apparently just allowing you to cast those spells “normally”) implies... something. Poorly worded, in any event. \$\endgroup\$ – KRyan Jan 5 '17 at 16:13
  • \$\begingroup\$ I agree it's not obvious which way to read that is the correct one, and the more I think about it the more you seem right. I will think a little more about it and edit my answer tomorrow when I will be fixed. \$\endgroup\$ – Anne Aunyme Jan 5 '17 at 16:42
  • \$\begingroup\$ Good answer and such, but I'd like to point out that there's no actual basis I've ever found restricting Paladins to choosing gods that are within a step of LG- in fact, Paladins aren't even required to have a god or even an ideal like a cleric (and in most cases, getting a god is a bad deal for the paladin- more rules to follow with their code). \$\endgroup\$ – Delioth Jan 5 '17 at 16:59
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Delioth: You are right, Paladins are like worshipers of the concept of Lawful-Good-ness, even if most of them rely on a divinity to get a code from it. Having a code is of course more rules to follow but it can permit you to avoid some dilemmas. For example in the situation: Evil goblins took the villagers in hostage and will execute them if the Paladin don't go away and leave them commit their evil acts alone, the Iomedae Paladin will know what he has to do: destroy the evil. where the Shelyn ones will know negociating is the right thing to do. \$\endgroup\$ – Anne Aunyme Jan 6 '17 at 8:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Delioth in golarion, both clerics and paladins have to choose a deity, or group of deities to follow. As for the setting neutral CRB, clerics can follow a concept or ideal, but paladins have right on the class description that they serve a deity. Clerics also have a similar description, but do say that they can also follow a concept, while paladins lack this extra information. That, however, doesn't prevent you from changing how it works on your games, as most of those descriptions are just that and not actual rules. \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras Jan 6 '17 at 11:21

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