The spell miracle is a classic. What interests me about it is this:

You state what you would like to have happen and request that your deity (or the power you pray to for spells) intercede.

In the case of a typical cleric it's pretty obvious that the spell means that it is actually the cleric's deity that intervenes, but what about a caster that uses miracle from its own Divine Source (as it is gained from some domains at rank 9)? In that case, the deity is the caster!

The special ability Divine Source says a mythic rank 9 creature really can grant the spell miracle to others, so there's no reason to make it just not work or make some other entity solve it instead (as might be the case for oracles, or clerics who revere a concept). So what actually happens when a Divine Source casts miracle through Divine Source?

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Since comments indicate that Divine Source is what you're particularly interested in, I've reduced the parts about oracles and revering a concept, since as-written the question seemed like you were interesting in those, not just using them as a foil for the question about Divine Source. I think this version is clearer and more direct. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jan 9, 2017 at 16:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ Actually I already had an idea about how to handle the case of oracles and such but as I wasn't sure about it I thought it would be better to let it as a question. Anyways that is indeed not the important part so your version is fine. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jan 9, 2017 at 16:59
  • \$\begingroup\$ That explains the muddiness in the question somewhat! Thanks. If you're still unsure about those two, probably best to ask how miracle works for oracles and clerics who revere concepts, rather than trying to generalise the question too much and try to get all of them squished into one question. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jan 9, 2017 at 17:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ I want to answer this, but this question is too opinion based (no explicit rules about it and mythic rules are purposedly vague), and i feel the current answer was good for the previous question about oracles and clerics of a concept. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    Commented Jan 10, 2017 at 10:58

3 Answers 3


that's actually his tutelary divinity who intervene

Not exactly, it could be his herald, or some being that serves him. Direct divine intervention is pretty damn rare and should be saved for rare moments in history, like the closing of the Worldwound or a new god ascending through the Starstone Cathedral.

Golarion's gods are known for (almost) never interfering with the material plane, unless something of catastrophic proportions is going on (see Rovagug). But that's something of the setting and not valid as a rule.

Now, who answers this plead? Well, any being who should be listening and has something to gain from it. Normally it's your god and his servants, as you are a faithful follower of their ideals. But this could also mean any outsider with enough power to carry your request, as long as your ideals and beliefs match.

So a cleric of a concept of Good and Nature could be answered by some Chaotic Good outsider, or demigod, or god. An oracle would call for powers that are likely related to whoever granted her the oracle powers she has. And a mythic character, probably whoever granted him his mythic power, or is the source of that power, or even the character's willpower allowing him to shape reality based on his faith on what he believes (why not, the GM has that power here).

Pretty much any Archfiend (devils) could answer the requests of a Lawful Evil cleric with no deity, for instance. Most would be rejoice if they could talk to someone that powerful and maybe seduce her to be a follower.

For a mythic character who can actually grant miracles to his followers, the GM could send him dozens of small notes with small requests each day (prayers). But when a powerful follower capable of casting miracle, he has the chance to personally answer the call, teleporting to his follower and use his own abilities to solve his problem.

Long story short, you pray to your deity, or powers that you believe, but who they send, or if they appear personally to answer the call, is up to your GM and how awesome he wants that scene to be.

  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Note that the asker appears to be interested in the SLAs gained through Divine Source. If you have the Miracle SLA because you are a Divine Source, who responds when you cast Miracle? Or do you grant your own miracles? \$\endgroup\$
    – Oblivious Sage
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:14
  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ I think that this is a good answer to a different question. \$\endgroup\$
    – J Kimball
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 19:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ @JKimball to be fair, the question changed from when this was answered, i will try again once i get back from work. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 21:14
  • \$\begingroup\$ That's a very fair reason. \$\endgroup\$
    – J Kimball
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 21:29
  • \$\begingroup\$ I changed back some parts of the question. @ObliviousSage nailed it. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jan 9, 2017 at 9:28

As written, it would appear that a 9th tier mythic character who can grant the Miracle spell and has enough cleric levels to cast Miracle, can grant himself the Miracle. He is basically a minor god at this point. Note that in Golarion, there is currently some sort of divine restriction preventing gods from directly interfering with the world. I personally would rule that a character granting Miracle to himself would run into this restriction, possibly getting himself banished from Golarion.


You basically have to have a conversation with your DM.

The base ability of miracle is not much of an issue it just lets you duplicate the effects of another spell, you can treat it like casting wish.

The "powerful requests" is where it gets interesting, since it is only limited by your imagination. For anyone else the god in question is supplying the mechanics of the change thus the limits are what they will allow and what they can do, when you yourself are supplying it it is undefined what your limits are. As written there is no answer for powerful requests so you need to talk with your DM before you try this. It gets even stranger when one of your clerics cast miracle. I will share some of the house-rules we invented to keep it reasonable.

We decided you could only achieve these more powerful effects within your domains as a divine source, thus those requests also involved a discussion with the DM about what was within our domain of influence. For example a fledgling god of repair should be able fix a damaged demiplane or heal a fatal injury(repair a body) but probably not sway the tide of battle or stop a hurricane (although they should be able to fix the city hit by the hurricane afterwards). Or a fledgling god of war might be able to sway the tide of battle but would not be able to stop an earthquake or remove a city wide curse.

Limiting it to things related to your domains as a demi-god made your 9th tier mythic demi-god feel like a demi-god, by doing things otherwise impossible without turning it into the solution to all problems. this also shows your character is close to reaching the point where they are barred from direct intervention (full fledged god) you are beginning to be able to make direct large scale changes to the world.

We also decided that such "powerful requests" cost mythic power to use (I think we settle on a minimum of 2 mythic points for self-cast, we settled on two because that is what the most powerful form of mythic wish costs and on 1 for requests from worshipers) just to keep it from being too game breaking. It also helped us work out the difference between a full fledged god and a 9th tier mythic, you can only grant a certain number of miracles a day. As a relatively weak godling you should not have that many high level worshipers to begin with. This was done more for ballance more than anything.


You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .