What happens with the reflex save aspect of Burning Gaze if it is cast on a sleeping ogre with standard stats?

Assume the ogre failed the CON save. Since the ogre is sleeping, does the ogre get a full reflex save or is there some sort of penalty?


1 Answer 1


The ogre gets a save, but with a fairly large penalty.

The ogre is asleep? That means it's unconscious.

Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. ...

Helpless, eh?

A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). ...

So the ogre gets to make a reflex save, but it doesn't get its normal dexterity bonus and it takes a -5 penalty.

Yes, I know nothing in the rules says that being asleep makes you unconscious, but we can assume that from knowledge of what the word "sleep" means. Also, the designers said so.


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