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I'm a first-time GM. I see a wealth of monsters that have somewhere between CR 1/8 to CR 1 in the Monster Manual. Skeletons are one of these monsters.

While those monsters are threatening to low-level characters, as my players level up these monsters seem to inevitably become less intimidating to the party.

Question: How can I effectively incorporate low-CR monster, such as skeletons, into an encounter with the appropriate difficulty level as players gain levels?

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closed as too broad by Miniman, user27327, daze413, Oblivious Sage, Joshua Aslan Smith Apr 7 '17 at 14:50

Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Your question may be closed because it is too broad. I suggest scoping it down. As I understand the question, you're really asking: "what are some good guidelines to design encounters from a CR-based perspective in order to give the players as much opportunity to interact with different types of monsters as possible?" \$\endgroup\$ – user27327 Apr 7 '17 at 13:45
  • \$\begingroup\$ I am unsure how to scope this down, but I must say that the central idea behind my question was answered by Taw's answer. I wanted to know how to still be able to use these creatures in a meaningful way while the PC's get strong enough to laugh at their CR's and his breakdown of the math of simply using a 'horde' satisfies it to an extent. \$\endgroup\$ – Ethan The Brave Apr 7 '17 at 14:57
  • \$\begingroup\$ @markovchain Would it be enough to simply swap my 'summary' with your question listed in quotes? That is the central premise of the question - I want to still make "OH NO NOW THERE ARE SKELETONS!" scary whenever the PC's are levels 5,6,7+ etc. \$\endgroup\$ – Ethan The Brave Apr 7 '17 at 14:59
  • \$\begingroup\$ If the answer satisfies you, you don't need to have it re-opened. Just accept the answer. But if you would like to get more answers and more perspectives, you would need to edit the body of your question such that the question is clearer. Also, my initial understanding of the question seems to be wrong going by how Taw has answered. \$\endgroup\$ – user27327 Apr 8 '17 at 4:23
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Low CR monsters pose a significant threat, even to higher level PCs.

Due to the nature of bounded accuracy in DnD 5e, high level PCs are unlikely to be invulnerable to the attacks of any monster no matter the CR. In fact, an encounter with a larger number of lower CR creatures will be more dangerous than an encounter with a smaller number of higher CR creatures even if the two encounters have the same properly calculated encounter CR (as described in the DMG pg 81, "Creating a Combat ENcounter).

Given many attacks against a player, attacks will certainly get through. Every round these creatures stay alive is that many more chances for more attacks to get through. It doesn't take many poor PC rolls or great monster rolls before things look grim. Additionally, single-target control spells and abilities of any level won't be very effective, and it's not uncommon for players to be hesitant to use their beefier area spells against creatures they don't consider individual threats.

It all amounts to low CR creatures being lethal. I would caution you against using them too liberally, add two or three too many to an encounter and your players may rapidly be overwhelmed.


Example: Party: 4 PCs at level 5

Encounter A: 18 x Bandit (CR 1/8) = CR 5

25xp multiplied by 18 creatures, total multiplied by 4 due to number of creatures being over 15 = 1800xp adjusted

This encounter has a total HP pool of 198.

Each round, this encounter gets 18 melee attacks at +3 to hit dealing 1d6+1 damage each, or 18 ranged attacks at +3 to hit dealing 1d8+1 damage each.

Let's say they all attack the tank of the party, wearing +1 Plate and a shield with an AC 21. They hit on an 18 or better, dealing an average of 5.5 damage * 18 = 99. On average 14.85 damage (0.15*99) gets dealt to the player each round.

Encounter B: 1 x Drow Elite Warrior (CR 5) = CR 5 = 1800xp

This encounter has a total HP pool of 71.

Each round, this encounter gets 2 melee attacks at +7 to hit dealing 4d6+4 each.

Let's say it's attacking the same tanky PC. It hits on a 14 or better and deals an average of 18 damage per hit * 2 = 36. On average, 12.6 (0.35*36) damage gets through.

To summarize:

  • Encounter A: 198 HP, 14.85 dmg/r
  • Encounter B: 71 HP, 12.6 dmg/r

On top of these numbers, consider the other points mentioned above such as the ease of disabling the one enemy vs 18 and the sheer amount of damage a party can dish out in a round.

Even though this is certainly not the best example, I think it illustrates how lethal low CR monsters can be. Hopefully my math was correct, but even if it isn't I think the factual numbers speak for themselves.


Down the line, I suspect you will find the opposite to be a bigger problem: How do I make individual bad guys a significant threat without threatening insta-killing PCs?

A solution that I have begun employing, taken from 4e and suggested by Matt Colville, is to take those low-CR creatures, give them only 1HP each, and add them to "boss fight" encounters. This way they still pose the same threat with their multitude of attacks, but can more consistently be removed from the fight by players (less bad-luck-TPKs, as I see it), and allows for the actual boss to get a round or two to shine in before he inevitably gets his person Held, grappled, Divine Smite, Hunter's Mark, Sneak Attack, crit into the dust.


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  • \$\begingroup\$ Hi Taw, welcome to the site! Check out our tour to see how we work here, and when you reach 20 rep, you'll be able to join us in Role-playing Games Chat. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Apr 7 '17 at 14:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ I wholeheartedly support the 1hp minions - I've used them few times and they both inspire fear in the heroes, running en masse, and then give them this great feel of superiority when they just smash through them. Limiting them to 1 attack per round is also something I would consider, both to further reduce actual threat and speed up the game a bit. \$\endgroup\$ – Gerino Apr 7 '17 at 15:24
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    \$\begingroup\$ MGlacier - advantage is their friend. Flanking or pack tactics just for starters. As for all 18 attacking 1 target, he was just doing the calculation for straight comparison. Most of your argument depends on hypothetical differences, when the point of the answer is showing how large numbers of low CR enemies pose a significant threat in 5e. If you think they don't, I recommend you try an incursion against Tucker's Kobolds. My party experienced that hell before. \$\endgroup\$ – Lino Frank Ciaralli Apr 7 '17 at 17:46
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    \$\begingroup\$ Taw, I recommend adding a link to Tucker's Kobolds as an example. They are a prime demonstration of the lethality of low CR creatures. \$\endgroup\$ – Lino Frank Ciaralli Apr 7 '17 at 17:50
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    \$\begingroup\$ Ah, okay, so the main point of the 18 bandits example was to show that a large number of enemies can deal some (however small and occasional) amounts of damage; not about the exact maths. Correct? (I also retract my statement about the >21 AC thing. 21 seems to be a pretty good number to use in this example.) \$\endgroup\$ – MGlacier Apr 7 '17 at 18:17

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