I know it's possible for an Estoc to have dex modifier for damage with the 'Agile' Magic Weapon Special Ability but I was wondering if any of the following options would allow the same ability:

Fencing Grace (Combat)

Your dashing style and fluid rapier forms allow you to use agility rather than brute force to fell your foes.

Benefit(s): When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The rapier must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or anytime another hand is otherwise occupied.

In addition, if you have the panache class feature, you gain a +2 bonus to your CMD against attempts to disarm you of your rapier while you have at least 1 panache point.


Slashing Grace (Combat)

You can stab your enemies with your sword or another slashing weapon.

Benefit: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

It seems like none of these work because Fencing Grace works only for Rapiers (although could someone consider an Estoc to be a type of rapier?), and Slashing Grace wouldn't work because Estoc is piercing.


2 Answers 2


No, it doesn't work.

But with the Weapon Versatility feat (requires Weapon Focus) from the Undead Slayer's Handbook, you can use the Estoc with Slashing Grace just fine.

Benefit: When wielding a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can shift your grip as a swift action so that your weapon deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage instead of the damage type normally dealt by that weapon. You may switch back to the weapon’s normal damage type or another damage type as a swift action. If your base attack bonus is +5 or higher, using this feat is a free action instead.

However, there are other options that you can look into:

  • Mythic Weapon Finesse - only available if you have mythic. Allows the character to add dex to damage to all finessable weapons.

  • 4th level of a swashbuckler archetype called Whirling Dervish. This applies to all weapons that work with Swashbuckler finesse plus scimitars.

At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.

  • 3rd level of Unchained Rogue (and again at 11th and 19th levels) allows one to select a single finessable type of weapon so you can use dex to damage with that type of weapon.

Finally, if the Path of War from Dreamscarred Press (third party publisher) is allowed, you have Deadly Agility, which allows you to use dex to damage on any light or finessable weapon.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Good list of alternatives, thanks! My DM agreed to allow 'Weapon Versatility' to work this way even though it's a bit of stretch since an Estoc doesn't have a cutting edge. I've also proposed a house-rule to include the Estoc in 'Fencing Grace' because it looks like Estoc is relatively new, considering it's not in the list of weapons in the description of 'Weapon Finesse' but Estoc's description says it can be as such. \$\endgroup\$
    – Daniel
    Apr 28, 2017 at 16:06
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Fencing Grace was written specifically with the swashbuckler in mind. Slashing Grace was written as an alternative to other builds. But yeah, the Estoc didn't exist until a few months ago. Which means that the developer that wrote it already knew about the existance of Both Grace feats and decided to not include on the weapon's description. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    Apr 28, 2017 at 17:05

No, neither work with the Estoc.

For Fencing Grace, it specifically calls out a rapier, which is a specific weapon, and the estoc does not have any text that allows it to be treated as a rapier, nor are there any feats that allow you to treat it as a rapier, so Fencing Grace cannot apply.

For Slashing Grace, it clearly does not apply since although it is one-handed, it is not a slashing weapon, hence you cannot choose it to for Slashing Grace.


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