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Hi so I've been told I should split up my earlier question to allow for more focused answers.

  • Detonate is confronting Dr I.n.Flammable, unfortunately for Flammable, he brought his minions to the fight. Detonate is able to incapacitate all five minions with his first Area Damage effect giving him five more standard actions.

I think in this specific case this would not grant any additional actions as there will be no more minions in range, however in a general case, can the Takedown effect grant more than one Standard action per turn?

  • Detonate is confronting Dr I.n.Flammable, unfortunately for Flammable, he brought his minions to the fight. Detonate is able to incapacitate one minion with each area attack while also including the Dr in the area, effectively allowing him to attack Flammable five times.

I expect that this will work as I have described.

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This was discussed here on the Ronin Army site. The general consensus was that Takedown Attack is intended to a regular attack or possibly Split, and only gives you one more attack even if your initial attack method allows for attacking more than one target. Therefore, your second example, using an area attack to hit a non-minion for "splash damage" wouldn't pan out.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ That matches my expectations for the first example. But the second example was intended to be that the attack was aimed at a minion and 'just happened ' to have Flammable inside the AoE. Do you mean that Flammable can only be affected by a specific power once per round or did I not make that clear? \$\endgroup\$ – J.Blake May 9 '17 at 13:10
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ah. I thought you were claiming to hit him as the "next hit" of Takedown Attack. I will amend my answer, but frankly, my feeling is that Area attacks were never meant to trigger Takedown Attack. \$\endgroup\$ – Sean Duggan May 9 '17 at 13:13
  • \$\begingroup\$ Could you revise this to be a single complete answer instead of two not-quite-complete answers? Right now it reads “[incorrect answer with references] Edit: [corrected answer lacking references]”, but it should instead be “[complete answer with references]”. It makes it hard to understand the answer. Thanks! (See the FAQ on edit markers for more.) \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie May 9 '17 at 14:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ @SevenSidedDie Changed. \$\endgroup\$ – Sean Duggan May 9 '17 at 14:43
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You're Doing It Wrong

A table I play at had misread the rule in the same way, so I'm familiar with this problem. Incidentally, it also doesn't work for perception-range powers.

The text of Takedown does not allow it to be used with area attacks.

If you render a minion incapacitated with an attack, you get an immediate extra attack as a free action against another minion....The extra attack is with the same attack and bonus as the first. (M&M 3e Deluxe Hero's Handbook p.140)

So, right off the bat Detonate clearly can't chain into Flammable. He can zip through the minions until he misses, but this simply doesn't affect real characters.

But let's look a little deeper. "Attacks" are defined on p.16 as rolls to see if you hit an opponent. You can see that definition echoed in the series power level limits (p.25) which has a limit for attack bonus + effect rank, and a separate limit for resisted effects without associated attacks.

Detonate might argue that as a power which does damage it's still an "attack," just without an associated "attack check;" Detonate would be wrong. Page 144 defines "attack" in the context of powers: "Attack effects are used offensively in combat. They require an attack check and damage, hinder, or otherwise harm their target in some way." The "area" extra (p.190) says "no attack check is needed," making it not satisfy the definition of attack. (Perception range works the same way).

Since area effects aren't "attacks," (even if they do damage) they don't trigger Takedown at all. Even if they did (which, again, they don't), you couldn't use Takedown to attack non-minions.

If you want to takedown minions in a similar way, your best bet is the Multiattack extra (p.195).

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  • \$\begingroup\$ I somehow forgot that Area attacks don't need attack rolls. Alright, what if we try this a different way. Detonate is now using a power with Multi-Attack or Split in order to incapacitate the minions while still getting hits on Flammable, this method was mentioned when I first posted this however got lost in the split to multiple questions. How would this resolve? Basically I'm more looking at getting attacks on meaningful charectars via takedown rather than this specific instance. \$\endgroup\$ – J.Blake May 9 '17 at 20:41
  • \$\begingroup\$ @J.Blake - by my reading above, each trigger would get you "an attack against a minion", not "a free use of a power that attacks a minion". Thus, you'd get your first multiattack, plus potentially a series of individual attacks against minions after that. \$\endgroup\$ – Ben Barden May 9 '17 at 20:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ You can't get attacks on non-minions through takedown. Offhand, you might be able to spread conditions to them by punching infectious conditions into their minions, but that seems very likely to be advantageous. \$\endgroup\$ – fectin May 9 '17 at 20:57
  • \$\begingroup\$ *unlikely to be advantageous. \$\endgroup\$ – fectin May 9 '17 at 21:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ @fectin I like where you are going with this, affliction linked move object (grab based, affects others, damaging). We just pick up the minions and as long as we throw them at villains hard enough to know them out we can keep doing it. :V:V \$\endgroup\$ – J.Blake May 9 '17 at 21:15

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