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How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

Your examples show that you are not treating the situations equally, you start off on a faulty premise. In the strength example the goal is to (un?)block the door. In the deception example the goal is ...
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How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

As the DM, ask about what you need to know As others have pointed out, your examples are different because (most of the time) how a party tries to deceive a clerk is much more likely to be narratively ...
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3 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

There are actually two different kinds of skill checks. You've pointed out two hypothetical skill checks — a strength check to move a barrel and a charisma check to convince a shop-keep to take some ...
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-1 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

PbtA works around this - don't roll to succeed, roll to get information! Systems Powered by the Apocalypse have a much neater way of dealing with this. Social skills frequently work like this: When ...
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3 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

You are right that it's unfair to have a social skill require you to perform the skill in order to get the result. You don't make a barbarian swing a sword in real life. So don't make a bard sing a ...
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-1 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

There are a lot of ways to look at Charisma (and Intelligence and Wisdom), and there's a grain of truth to most if not all of them. I Agree With You Social stats are often treated differently than ...
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1 vote

How to help player quickly make a decision when they have no way of knowing which option is best

Frame challenge: A time limit does not need to be antagonistic, you just need to get everyone to agree to it beforehand and apply it consistently. Think back to when you had a bad experience with time ...
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6 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

Set this out in session zero As you and other answers have pointed out, it is frustrating to be make a good persuasive argument and then fluff the roll, but in my opinion that is where DND differs ...
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8 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

The advantage/disadvantage mechanic was invented for this First, it is entirely possible to decide that the specified method is so good (or bad) that it just works (or not). However, if you roll, ...
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0 votes

How to help player quickly make a decision when they have no way of knowing which option is best

Don't put them in this situation Your players have decision paralysis provoked by incomplete information. While it is especially frustrating to you (and perhaps the other players) when the ...
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30 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

Your DM is asking for details of the approach so they can determine what checks, if any, to ask for; as well as what the DCs should be. The core issue here is that some skill checks are ...
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11 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

Balance player and character skill The Player skill vs Character skill question is an age-old problem. As a player, you are not able to slay dragons or throw fireballs, so you must rely on the ...
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4 votes

How to handle deception skill rolls fairly based on the premise of the deception?

TL;DR: Treat all skills equally. Either don't let roleplay have any effect on the rolled skill, or give bonuses based on them. Always let the player attempt what they want to attempt, with appropriate ...
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-2 votes

How to help player quickly make a decision when they have no way of knowing which option is best

Impose a time limit, but provide a mechanism for players to take a "time-out". Generally, everyone is required to select their combat actions within a limited time span. However, the ...
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0 votes

How can I make players still feel rewarded after looting a dragon hoard?

Give the characters a cause greater than wealth I'd like to share some practical experience with a similiar situation, where my players found just such a treasure pile1, worth far more than level-...
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-1 votes

How to help player quickly make a decision when they have no way of knowing which option is best

Give players one minute to decide their turn Slow deliberate combat like this is fun for nobody but the slow thinker and it breaks the suspension of disbelief. In a real combat situation, you need to ...
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-1 votes

How can I make players still feel rewarded after looting a dragon hoard?

In general I agree with (and upvoted) Pyrotechnical's answer, but I also wanted to give a secondary approach which isn't covered here so far. I'd recommend perhaps using both the above answer and mine....
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4 votes

How to help player quickly make a decision when they have no way of knowing which option is best

Let the dice decide When I'm DMing an attack on an invisible creature and the player is indecisive about where to attack I make them roll for it. Perhaps there are four possible squares the enemy ...
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-2 votes

How do I encourage a passive player to engage with the story?

In the current campaign I'm playing, we ran into similar problems when our four player + DM group dwindled to a two player + DM group. We rely pretty heavily on flanking, which was hard with one ...
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