Timeline for How powerful can a 20th-level Wizard make a 1st-level Fighter without allowing him to realize it is the Wizard's doing?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
13 events
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| Oct 27, 2020 at 12:51 | comment | added | RevanantBacon | @Perkins Well, considering that the grandson is a level 1 fighter, I don't see how he would be able to cast any spell on one of his allies, let alone a level 9 spell with a casting time of multiple days. He's certainly not gonna make the UMD necessary to cast it off a scroll, and any item that could cast it for him would be a custom item, and therefore only usable subject to DM approval (aka, don't bet on it). | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 0:21 | comment | added | Perkins | @RevenantBacon No, you're targeting the grandson with that to have him subconsciously mind control the others into not thinking about the possibility of anyone helping the party. I can think of lots of ways this could go spectacularly wrong though if there's anyone involved in the mission who might legitimately be helping the party... | |
| Oct 23, 2020 at 19:44 | comment | added | RevanantBacon | @Perkins But then you would be targeting someone other than the grandson with a spell, and have failed the challenge in a different way. | |
| Oct 23, 2020 at 19:25 | comment | added | Perkins | @RevenantBacon If there's no exception for them forgetting afterward, then what you'd be looking for would be something similar to 3.5's "programmed amnesia" where you can make them do certain things in response to certain triggers and never consciously know that they've done it. Definitely a stretch of the rules though. | |
| Oct 20, 2020 at 17:36 | comment | added | RevanantBacon | Pretty sure you can't "mind control" someone with a bluff check. Also, if a lie is wildly unbelievable (like "Oh, yes, people spontaneously gaining the ability to fly is common"), then you get a nice -20 to the attempt, and someone revealing the truth after the fact would certainly count as you getting caught interfering. Thirdly, The rules specifically stipulated that you can only target the grandson with spells. Not the grandson and his three best pals, not the grandson and his dog, just the grandson. | |
| Oct 20, 2020 at 15:18 | comment | added | Peter Cordes | The question says This Wizard can cast spells on his grandson, only. That bullet point might have not have intended to disallow spells on the rest of the party (it goes on to say "He can't Dominate the monsters or Disintegrate locked doors"). But as worded, you can only help the grandson by casting spells on him specifically. If you can buff the whole party, that would also indirectly help the grandson, so you'd have to draw the line somewhere. (Like maybe no spells that directly help anyone else, only indirectly by letting you get away with more stuff on the grandson?) @RevenantBacon | |
| Oct 19, 2020 at 19:18 | comment | added | Please stop being evil | You cast modify memory on the companions directly. There's no prohibition against doing so. It aids in the endeavor by allowing you to rewrite their understanding of the world one memory at a time so that they think spontaneously developing flight is relatively normal. Also magic items are common and dragons are fairly low level monsters. Or whatever. Basically, you can mind control the party non-magically via bluff or magically via the listed spells in order to have nearly total control over their internal state. | |
| Oct 19, 2020 at 19:14 | review | Suggested edits | |||
| Oct 19, 2020 at 20:32 | |||||
| Oct 19, 2020 at 19:10 | comment | added | RevanantBacon | @Perkins The parameters stipulated that they could not find out. There is no exception listed for if they "forget" afterwards. | |
| Oct 19, 2020 at 18:28 | comment | added | Perkins | @RevenantBacon Perhaps give the grandson some item to allow him to use Modify Memory on his companions and a Suggestion that he should definitely do so... And then modify his memory directly when he's done. At the end of the adventure the crazy, high-powered hijinks get replaced with a shared hallucination of it all just being easier than it really was. Depends on whether them temporarily knowing they had help breaks the rules or not. | |
| Oct 19, 2020 at 17:17 | comment | added | RevanantBacon | How does Modify Memory aid in this endeavor? Assuming the companions had any prior knowledge of the fighter, then it automatically becomes suspect, and per the rules laid out, the companions are not valid options for memory modification. And the fighter saying "Oh, yeah, I could always fly" is not likely to be believable by the other party members. | |
| Oct 19, 2020 at 16:56 | comment | added | Ifusaso 'he-him' | @KorvinStarmast I think this is an abstract question where the players' meta knowledge isn't the question, it's the in-world characters (which Modify Memory takes care of). That being said, I still find this a far stretch to assume those spells or a simple Bluff check could prevent even a low level adventurer from finding their ability to fly and similarly strange events to be out of place. | |
| Oct 19, 2020 at 15:13 | history | answered | Please stop being evil | CC BY-SA 4.0 |