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KRyan
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Aligned domains—clearly “No” but probably not the question

“Only if your alignment matches” vs. “not of an alignment that opposes your own”

Just to be clear, inThere are two major cleric class features that are restricted based on your/your deity’s alignment: the case ofdomains you have and the actualspells you cast. Specifically, we have

A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one).

and

A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if [his/her] alignment matches that domain.

The way the alignment restriction is implemented is different for these two things. Spells must not be “opposed,” but domains must “match.”

For a Lawful Neutral alignment, you can’t select the domain“matching” alignments are Law, and “opposing” alignments are Chaos. Good and Evil are both neither matching nor opposing (“A clericyou are “Neutral” with respect to those alignments). So, you can select anthe Law domain—your alignment domainmatches it—but cannot select the Good or Evil domains (Chaos, Evil, Goodsince you are Neutral with those, or Lawnot matching) only if [his/her] alignment matches that, and you cannot select the Chaos domain.” (since you are opposed to that).¹ This is even stricter rule than On the alignment restriction on spellsother hand, since withthe only spells you cannot cast are only prohibited from casting spells thatthe ones with the Chaos descriptor—only those oppose your alignment. (no evilBoth good and evil spells are available to you if you are Lawful Neutral. You cannot cast chaotic spells if you are.

Casting a good or evil spell may constitute a good or evil act, etcwhich may cause your alignment to become good or evil over time.) This is very much up to the DM, but for domainsthough; Pathfinder’s authors have some (really stupid, IMO) suggestions for it has to match your alignment (no Evil domain unless you/your deity are actually evil).

Anywayroughly, I don’t think this was really in question“three strikes and you’re out”), but wantedultimately it’s going to make sure no one forgot about it inbe up to the discussion of other domainsDM.

  1. This almost doesn’t matter because the Chaos, Evil, Good, and Law domains are pretty terrible and should almost-never be chosen. In 3.5e, Complete Champion’s devotion feats—which can replace a domain—change that calculus somewhat since some of them, particularly Law Devotion, are quite good, and have the same restriction.

Here is the actual questionSo what if your Lawful Neutral cleric selects an unaligned domain that has a chaotic spell on it? For example, and here we need to split into separate discussions of D&Dthe 3.5e Bestial domain has were-doom on it, which is an Evocation [Chaos, Evil] spell. It is normally only available to chaotic and Pathfinder 1e/or evil clerics since the only deities that offer it—Karaan, because theyMalar, and Yeenoghu—are all Chaotic Evil, but a Lawful Neutral cleric of an ideal might be able to have slightly different wordingit. Can this Lawful Neutral cleric cast were-doom?

Aligned domains—clearly “No” but probably not the question

Just to be clear, in the case of the actual alignment domains, you can’t select the domain (“A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if [his/her] alignment matches that domain.”).¹ This is even stricter rule than the alignment restriction on spells, since with spells you are only prohibited from casting spells that oppose your alignment (no evil spells if you are good, etc.), but for domains, it has to match your alignment (no Evil domain unless you/your deity are actually evil).

Anyway, I don’t think this was really in question, but wanted to make sure no one forgot about it in the discussion of other domains.

  1. This almost doesn’t matter because the Chaos, Evil, Good, and Law domains are pretty terrible and should almost-never be chosen. In 3.5e, Complete Champion’s devotion feats—which can replace a domain—change that calculus somewhat since some of them, particularly Law Devotion, are quite good, and have the same restriction.

Here is the actual question, and here we need to split into separate discussions of D&D 3.5e and Pathfinder 1e, because they have slightly different wording.

“Only if your alignment matches” vs. “not of an alignment that opposes your own”

There are two major cleric class features that are restricted based on your/your deity’s alignment: the domains you have and the spells you cast. Specifically, we have

A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one).

and

A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if [his/her] alignment matches that domain.

The way the alignment restriction is implemented is different for these two things. Spells must not be “opposed,” but domains must “match.”

For a Lawful Neutral alignment, “matching” alignments are Law, and “opposing” alignments are Chaos. Good and Evil are both neither matching nor opposing (you are “Neutral” with respect to those alignments). So, you can select the Law domain—your alignment matches it—but cannot select the Good or Evil domains (since you are Neutral with those, not matching), and you cannot select the Chaos domain (since you are opposed to that). On the other hand, the only spells you cannot cast are the ones with the Chaos descriptor—only those oppose your alignment. Both good and evil spells are available to you if you are Lawful Neutral. You cannot cast chaotic spells.

Casting a good or evil spell may constitute a good or evil act, which may cause your alignment to become good or evil over time. This is very much up to the DM, though; Pathfinder’s authors have some (really stupid, IMO) suggestions for it (roughly, “three strikes and you’re out”), but ultimately it’s going to be up to the DM.

So what if your Lawful Neutral cleric selects an unaligned domain that has a chaotic spell on it? For example, the 3.5e Bestial domain has were-doom on it, which is an Evocation [Chaos, Evil] spell. It is normally only available to chaotic and/or evil clerics since the only deities that offer it—Karaan, Malar, and Yeenoghu—are all Chaotic Evil, but a Lawful Neutral cleric of an ideal might be able to have it. Can this Lawful Neutral cleric cast were-doom?

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KRyan
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Just to be clear, in the case of the actual alignment domains, you can’t select the domain (“A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if [his/her] alignment matches that domain.”).¹ This is even stricter rule than the alignment restriction on spells, since with spells you are only prohibited from casting spells that oppose your alignment (no evil spells if you are good, etc.), but for domains, it has to match your alignment (no Evil domain unless you/your deity are actually evil).

(This almost doesn’t matter because the Chaos, Evil, Good, and Law domains are pretty terrible and should almost-never be chosen. Complete Champion’s devotion feats—which can replace a domain—change that calculus somewhat since some of them, particularly Law Devotion, are quite good, and have the same restriction.)

  1. This almost doesn’t matter because the Chaos, Evil, Good, and Law domains are pretty terrible and should almost-never be chosen. In 3.5e, Complete Champion’s devotion feats—which can replace a domain—change that calculus somewhat since some of them, particularly Law Devotion, are quite good, and have the same restriction.

Just to be clear, in the case of the actual alignment domains, you can’t select the domain (“A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if [his/her] alignment matches that domain.”). This is even stricter rule than the alignment restriction on spells, since with spells you are only prohibited from casting spells that oppose your alignment (no evil spells if you are good, etc.), but for domains, it has to match your alignment (no Evil domain unless you/your deity are actually evil).

(This almost doesn’t matter because the Chaos, Evil, Good, and Law domains are pretty terrible and should almost-never be chosen. Complete Champion’s devotion feats—which can replace a domain—change that calculus somewhat since some of them, particularly Law Devotion, are quite good, and have the same restriction.)

Just to be clear, in the case of the actual alignment domains, you can’t select the domain (“A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if [his/her] alignment matches that domain.”).¹ This is even stricter rule than the alignment restriction on spells, since with spells you are only prohibited from casting spells that oppose your alignment (no evil spells if you are good, etc.), but for domains, it has to match your alignment (no Evil domain unless you/your deity are actually evil).

  1. This almost doesn’t matter because the Chaos, Evil, Good, and Law domains are pretty terrible and should almost-never be chosen. In 3.5e, Complete Champion’s devotion feats—which can replace a domain—change that calculus somewhat since some of them, particularly Law Devotion, are quite good, and have the same restriction.
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KRyan
KRyan
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Aligned domains—clearly “No” but probably not the question

Just to be clear, in the case of the actual alignment domains, you can’t select the domain (“A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if [his/her] alignment matches that domain.”). This is even stricter rule than the alignment restriction on spells, since with spells you are only prohibited from casting spells that oppose your alignment (no evil spells if you are good, etc.), but for domains, it has to match your alignment (no Evil domain unless you/your deity are actually evil).

(This almost doesn’t matter because the Chaos, Evil, Good, and Law domains are pretty terrible and should almost-never be chosen. Complete Champion’s devotion feats—which can replace a domain—change that calculus somewhat since some of them, particularly Law Devotion, are quite good, and have the same restriction.)

Anyway, I don’t think this was really in question, but wanted to make sure no one forgot about it in the discussion of other domains.

Aligned spells from unaligned domains

Here is the actual question, and here we need to split into separate discussions of D&D 3.5e and Pathfinder 1e, because they have slightly different wording.

D&D 3.5e—we don’t know for sure, but almost certainly “No”

However, there are other domains that have aligned spells. Strictly speaking, it’s not really defined by the rules whether you can cast these with an opposing alignment:

Each domain gives the cleric access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast,

says a cleric can cast the spell, while

A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one).

says a cleric can’t. The rules don’t clearly lay out a sense of which of these rules is “primary” here.

That said, there are a number of clues that the alignment requirement still applies to domain spells. The most significant of these is that the domain spells feature says the domain gives the cleric access to the spells—it does say “he can cast,” but the emphasis on “access” suggests that this isn’t absolute. Certainly, we expect that the cleric must still provide the needed components (chants, gestures, materials, etc) in order to cast them; the “he can cast” doesn’t override all the usual requirements for spellcasting. It likewise should not overrule the alignment restriction that clerics have on spells.

Even though you can’t cast the spell, this doesn’t necessarily mean you should never choose a domain with an aligned spell that opposes yours. You could select the domain and just not cast that spell; you get two domains, after all, so you could always just cast the spell from the other one. If the rest of the domain is strong enough, this could be fine.

Pathfinder—much more clearly “No”

While Pathfinder copied most of its core text directly from the 3.5e SRD, they did edit things here and there. It turns out the text of domain spells changed a little, in a crucial way:

Each domain grants a number of domain powers, dependent upon the level of the cleric, as well as a number of bonus spells. A cleric gains one domain spell slot for each level of cleric spell she can cast, from 1st on up. Each day, a cleric can prepare one of the spells from her two domains in that slot. If a domain spell is not on the cleric spell list, a cleric can prepare it only in her domain spell slot. Domain spells cannot be used to cast spells spontaneously.

Nowhere in here does it say “the cleric can cast the spell.” It says she can prepare it, which implies that she can cast—as long as she could otherwise cast that spell. But now the rule about aligned spells clearly says she cannot cast it, so she can’t. There is no longer any argument about one thing saying a cleric can and another thing saying the cleric can’t.

As in 3.5e, the cleric can still choose the domain (unless that is aligned, too), if the rest of the domain is good enough and she is comfortable just always casting her other domain’s spell out of that domain slot.