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spelled out answer with more clarity
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Roger Hill
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If you hit someone who trusts youthe target knows the source of the damage is the caster or their party, the spell ends. If they stop trusting yoususpect the source of the damage, it might end, but that is up to the DM.

The intent of the spell is: if you attack or injure the subject who has been magically compelled to think that you are their close friend and trusted ally, the magic will be ruined and they will no longer believe that you are their friend. This is spelled out pretty clearly in the description.

Your question does have some nuance, so you need to think about the circumstance. Does the person / monster / horrible aberration that you have charmed have reason to think that the damage they just took is a result of your callous actions? Did they fall into the pit filled with spikes because they were clumsy or because you tripped them?

This is going to have to be a DM call.

Is the creature highly intelligent? Are they paranoid? Are they of a race the even loves or trusts anything? (GL trying to charm a beholder...) All of these factors would probably affect the situation.

You could rule that any damage taken snaps them out of the trance, but that would be a house rule as the spell description is pretty clear about the intent. Personally, I would allow 'plausible deniability' situations where the cause of the damage wasn't obvious. Perhaps this might be a good time for a second saving throw, as doubts enter the mind of the charm victim about their new friend?

This could add a whole twist to the spell if one method of dispelling it was to cause the victim to believe that the caster had just attacked them.

If you hit someone who trusts you, they stop trusting you.

The intent of the spell is: if you attack or injure the subject who has been magically compelled to think that you are their close friend and trusted ally, the magic will be ruined and they will no longer believe that you are their friend. This is spelled out pretty clearly in the description.

Your question does have some nuance, so you need to think about the circumstance. Does the person / monster / horrible aberration that you have charmed have reason to think that the damage they just took is a result of your callous actions? Did they fall into the pit filled with spikes because they were clumsy or because you tripped them?

You could rule that any damage taken snaps them out of the trance, but that would be a house rule as the spell description is pretty clear about the intent. Personally, I would allow 'plausible deniability' situations where the cause of the damage wasn't obvious. Perhaps this might be a good time for a second saving throw, as doubts enter the mind of the charm victim about their new friend?

This could add a whole twist to the spell if one method of dispelling it was to cause the victim to believe that the caster had just attacked them.

If the target knows the source of the damage is the caster or their party, the spell ends. If they suspect the source of the damage, it might end, but that is up to the DM.

The intent of the spell is: if you attack or injure the subject who has been magically compelled to think that you are their close friend and trusted ally, the magic will be ruined and they will no longer believe that you are their friend. This is spelled out pretty clearly in the description.

Your question does have some nuance, so you need to think about the circumstance. Does the person / monster / horrible aberration that you have charmed have reason to think that the damage they just took is a result of your callous actions? Did they fall into the pit filled with spikes because they were clumsy or because you tripped them?

This is going to have to be a DM call.

Is the creature highly intelligent? Are they paranoid? Are they of a race the even loves or trusts anything? (GL trying to charm a beholder...) All of these factors would probably affect the situation.

You could rule that any damage taken snaps them out of the trance, but that would be a house rule as the spell description is pretty clear about the intent. Personally, I would allow 'plausible deniability' situations where the cause of the damage wasn't obvious. Perhaps this might be a good time for a second saving throw, as doubts enter the mind of the charm victim about their new friend?

This could add a whole twist to the spell if one method of dispelling it was to cause the victim to believe that the caster had just attacked them.

trimmed cruft out of answer
Source Link
Roger Hill
  • 567
  • 2
  • 5

TLDR: IfIf you hit someone who trusts you, they stop trusting you.

The intent of the spell is: if you attack or injure the subject who has been magically compelled to think that you are their close friend and trusted ally, the magic will be ruined and they will no longer believe that you are their friend. This is spelled out pretty clearly in the description.

Your question does have some nuance, so you need to think about the circumstance. Does the person / monster / horrible aberration that you have charmed have reason to think that the damage they just took is a result of your callous actions? Did they fall into the pit filled with spikes because they were clumsy or because you tripped them?

You could rule that any damage taken snaps them out of the trance, but that would be a house rule as the spell description is generally pretty clear about the intent. Personally, I would allow 'plausible deniability' situations where the cause of the damage wasn't obvious. Perhaps this might be a good time for a second saving throw, as doubts enter the mind of the charm victim about their new friend?

I have to ask though, why would you tryThis could add a whole twist to throw spells at the bugbear when its back is turned? Just wait until it falls asleep and kill it then. It's just as evil and underhanded, butspell if one method of dispelling it doesn't risk the bugbear suddenly changing allegiance.

I'll leavewas to cause the discussion of alignment and morals in relationvictim to mind controlling spells for another daybelieve that the caster had just attacked them.

TLDR: If you hit someone who trusts you, they stop trusting you.

The intent of the spell is: if you attack or injure the subject who has been magically compelled to think that you are their close friend and trusted ally, the magic will be ruined and they will no longer believe that you are their friend.

Your question does have some nuance, so you need to think about the circumstance. Does the person / monster / horrible aberration that you have charmed have reason to think that the damage they just took is a result of your callous actions? Did they fall into the pit filled with spikes because they were clumsy or because you tripped them?

You could rule that any damage taken snaps them out of the trance, but the spell description is generally pretty clear about the intent. Personally, I would allow 'plausible deniability' situations where the cause of the damage wasn't obvious. Perhaps this might be a good time for a second saving throw, as doubts enter the mind of the charm victim about their new friend?

I have to ask though, why would you try to throw spells at the bugbear when its back is turned? Just wait until it falls asleep and kill it then. It's just as evil and underhanded, but it doesn't risk the bugbear suddenly changing allegiance.

I'll leave the discussion of alignment and morals in relation to mind controlling spells for another day.

If you hit someone who trusts you, they stop trusting you.

The intent of the spell is: if you attack or injure the subject who has been magically compelled to think that you are their close friend and trusted ally, the magic will be ruined and they will no longer believe that you are their friend. This is spelled out pretty clearly in the description.

Your question does have some nuance, so you need to think about the circumstance. Does the person / monster / horrible aberration that you have charmed have reason to think that the damage they just took is a result of your callous actions? Did they fall into the pit filled with spikes because they were clumsy or because you tripped them?

You could rule that any damage taken snaps them out of the trance, but that would be a house rule as the spell description is pretty clear about the intent. Personally, I would allow 'plausible deniability' situations where the cause of the damage wasn't obvious. Perhaps this might be a good time for a second saving throw, as doubts enter the mind of the charm victim about their new friend?

This could add a whole twist to the spell if one method of dispelling it was to cause the victim to believe that the caster had just attacked them.

Source Link
Roger Hill
  • 567
  • 2
  • 5

TLDR: If you hit someone who trusts you, they stop trusting you.

The intent of the spell is: if you attack or injure the subject who has been magically compelled to think that you are their close friend and trusted ally, the magic will be ruined and they will no longer believe that you are their friend.

Your question does have some nuance, so you need to think about the circumstance. Does the person / monster / horrible aberration that you have charmed have reason to think that the damage they just took is a result of your callous actions? Did they fall into the pit filled with spikes because they were clumsy or because you tripped them?

You could rule that any damage taken snaps them out of the trance, but the spell description is generally pretty clear about the intent. Personally, I would allow 'plausible deniability' situations where the cause of the damage wasn't obvious. Perhaps this might be a good time for a second saving throw, as doubts enter the mind of the charm victim about their new friend?

I have to ask though, why would you try to throw spells at the bugbear when its back is turned? Just wait until it falls asleep and kill it then. It's just as evil and underhanded, but it doesn't risk the bugbear suddenly changing allegiance.

I'll leave the discussion of alignment and morals in relation to mind controlling spells for another day.