Skip to main content
deleted 24 characters in body
Source Link
mxyzplk
  • 175.7k
  • 31
  • 439
  • 662

Levels in a PC class + existing CR (or LA) = CR

However, this is a flawed system. Monsters are often stronger than individual PCs, or have factors that cause them to appear to be more challenging (or tougher) than an equal level npc does when confronted by 4 PCs with nothing but his elite array and some class levels to protect him.

As you are using highly-modular components with vastly varying levels of power, the power of the npc is not a fixed constant either. Mu Sha Qui, the Majo of the Northern Dark, 7th level Wizard and his personal retinue of planar bound creatures, is probably a tougher challenge than Po Rin Qui, his older brother, a 7th level Fighter caught alone on a towertop without his Four Pillars to guard him. The damning thing is that with the wrong spells or tactics, that situation reverses. With the right build, Po Rin is an unstoppable whirlwind, and with the wrong spells or positioning, Mu Sha is a pushover (quite literally, with the right bullrush, a window, and the propensity for wizards to live in towers).

Even moreso than with monsters, using npcs as challenges depends on the GM's ability to 'judge' a situation and the strength of the individuals and either give the winds of chance a blow to the side that improves the story, or, communicate this to the PCs/have the NPCs realize this and act to try to redress the balance (two different styles of GMing).

To put it bluntly, CR doesn't mean sweet fuckisn't accurate at all when it comes to npcsdealing with foes with class levels. There's a reason why the stronger GMs use npcs as foes a lot more, and it's because npcs as foes is hard.

Levels in a PC class + existing CR (or LA) = CR

However, this is a flawed system. Monsters are often stronger than individual PCs, or have factors that cause them to appear to be more challenging (or tougher) than an equal level npc does when confronted by 4 PCs with nothing but his elite array and some class levels to protect him.

As you are using highly-modular components with vastly varying levels of power, the power of the npc is not a fixed constant either. Mu Sha Qui, the Majo of the Northern Dark, 7th level Wizard and his personal retinue of planar bound creatures, is probably a tougher challenge than Po Rin Qui, his older brother, a 7th level Fighter caught alone on a towertop without his Four Pillars to guard him. The damning thing is that with the wrong spells or tactics, that situation reverses. With the right build, Po Rin is an unstoppable whirlwind, and with the wrong spells or positioning, Mu Sha is a pushover (quite literally, with the right bullrush, a window, and the propensity for wizards to live in towers).

Even moreso than with monsters, using npcs as challenges depends on the GM's ability to 'judge' a situation and the strength of the individuals and either give the winds of chance a blow to the side that improves the story, or, communicate this to the PCs/have the NPCs realize this and act to try to redress the balance (two different styles of GMing).

To put it bluntly, CR doesn't mean sweet fuck all when it comes to npcs with class levels. There's a reason why the stronger GMs use npcs as foes a lot more, and it's because npcs as foes is hard.

Levels in a PC class + existing CR (or LA) = CR

However, this is a flawed system. Monsters are often stronger than individual PCs, or have factors that cause them to appear to be more challenging (or tougher) than an equal level npc does when confronted by 4 PCs with nothing but his elite array and some class levels to protect him.

As you are using highly-modular components with vastly varying levels of power, the power of the npc is not a fixed constant either. Mu Sha Qui, the Majo of the Northern Dark, 7th level Wizard and his personal retinue of planar bound creatures, is probably a tougher challenge than Po Rin Qui, his older brother, a 7th level Fighter caught alone on a towertop without his Four Pillars to guard him. The damning thing is that with the wrong spells or tactics, that situation reverses. With the right build, Po Rin is an unstoppable whirlwind, and with the wrong spells or positioning, Mu Sha is a pushover (quite literally, with the right bullrush, a window, and the propensity for wizards to live in towers).

Even moreso than with monsters, using npcs as challenges depends on the GM's ability to 'judge' a situation and the strength of the individuals and either give the winds of chance a blow to the side that improves the story, or, communicate this to the PCs/have the NPCs realize this and act to try to redress the balance (two different styles of GMing).

CR isn't accurate at all when dealing with foes with class levels. There's a reason why the stronger GMs use npcs as foes a lot more, and it's because npcs as foes is hard.

Source Link
user2754
  • 30.6k
  • 4
  • 86
  • 151

Levels in a PC class + existing CR (or LA) = CR

However, this is a flawed system. Monsters are often stronger than individual PCs, or have factors that cause them to appear to be more challenging (or tougher) than an equal level npc does when confronted by 4 PCs with nothing but his elite array and some class levels to protect him.

As you are using highly-modular components with vastly varying levels of power, the power of the npc is not a fixed constant either. Mu Sha Qui, the Majo of the Northern Dark, 7th level Wizard and his personal retinue of planar bound creatures, is probably a tougher challenge than Po Rin Qui, his older brother, a 7th level Fighter caught alone on a towertop without his Four Pillars to guard him. The damning thing is that with the wrong spells or tactics, that situation reverses. With the right build, Po Rin is an unstoppable whirlwind, and with the wrong spells or positioning, Mu Sha is a pushover (quite literally, with the right bullrush, a window, and the propensity for wizards to live in towers).

Even moreso than with monsters, using npcs as challenges depends on the GM's ability to 'judge' a situation and the strength of the individuals and either give the winds of chance a blow to the side that improves the story, or, communicate this to the PCs/have the NPCs realize this and act to try to redress the balance (two different styles of GMing).

To put it bluntly, CR doesn't mean sweet fuck all when it comes to npcs with class levels. There's a reason why the stronger GMs use npcs as foes a lot more, and it's because npcs as foes is hard.