What is the fastest path to an Ur-Priest Mystic Theurge?

Question

From the Complete Divine (p. 70), the requirements for the Ur-Priest prestige class are:

• Any evil
• Base Saves: Fort +3, Will +3
• Skill Ranks: Bluff 6, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (the planes) 5, Knowledge (religion) 8, Spellcraft 8
• Feats: Iron Will, Spell Focus (evil)

From the DMG (p. 192), the requirements for the Mystic Theurge prestige class are:

• Skill ranks: Knowlege (arcana) 6, Knowledge (religion) 6
• Spells: Ability to cast 2nd level divine and 2nd level arcane spells.

The divine-side of the Mystic Theurge requirements can be fulfilled with 2 levels of the Ur-Priest class.

Given at least 3 levels of an arcane caster class prior to entering Ur-Priest, what combination of base classes gives the fewest number of class levels in order to enter Ur-Priest?

The 6 ranks of Bluff combined with a base Fortitude of +3 seem particularly difficult to acquire while still leaving room for at least 3 levels of an arcane caster.

Answer 1

Assuming the arcane spellcasting class has a poor Fortitude save and Bluff as a cross-class skill, you need a single level of anything that has a good Fortitude save and Bluff in-class. Then the +1 of your arcane class’s poor Fortitude save after 3 levels will add with the +2 of the good Fortitude save from the new class, and you can just dump all your skill points in Bluff (ideally, a high-skill class makes this easier, though if your arcane class is intelligence-based it may not matter).

You still need 5 overall levels to get the Knowledge (religion) and Spellcraft ranks, however, so that is a hard limit. You thus want 4 levels in whatever your arcane spellcasting class is, plus one level of something else.

Many classes fit this description, but none are likely to work as well for you as savage bard:

• Good Fortitude save

• Bluff, Knowledge (religion), and Spellcraft in-class; no need for any cross-class ranks

• 6 + Int skill points, making it trivial to get the 6 you need in Bluff

• Good 1st-level class features overall

  • Bardic Music means you can qualify for sublime chord, an arcane prestige class similar to ur-priest in its quick progression. You’d still (just barely) get 9ths from your typical prepared arcane spellcasting class, so this is kind of unnecessary, but it’s a neat alternative, and it does hit 9th-level spells a character level sooner.

The order of your savage bard levels and levels in the other class is going to have to be a calculation on your part. If you take savage bard first, you get to multiply its base 6 skill points by ×4, which is probably better than your other spellcasting class gets. However, you’re also limited to 4 ranks in any one skill, which means you are going to have to put cross-class ranks in Bluff to get the remaining 2 ranks – costing you two more skill points than it would otherwise. Mathematically, savage bard first is better (6 additional skill points if your other class has 4+Int skills, 14 additional skill points if your other class has 2+Int skills), but you’ll have to make sure you can get all the ranks you need with your lower-skill-point-per-level class having to pay cross-class prices. Especially if that class does not get Knowledge (religion) in-class.

Because bard is Charisma-based (as is sublime chord, if you go that route), and you only barely get 9th-level spells from a prepared arcane spellcasting class (and wouldn’t from a spontaneous one), sha’ir from Dragon Compendium might be a better choice than wizard or sorcerer. It has you prepare spells (sort of), and thus gets new spell levels “on time” unlike the sorcerer, but it’s also Charisma-based. It does get a small amount divine spellcasting, though, weirdly enough: ur-priest requires that you forsake this ability entirely, but it’s no great loss.

Answer 2

Laborious Training increases the maximum ranks you can have in an Int Skill by 2, it is page 91 in the 'Legacy Of The Blood' book, so in reality you can ACTUALLY get this class at level 4, then Mystic Theurge at level 5.

Sorcerer 1/Blue Dragon Shaman 1/ Class that increases Fort by +2 and allows bluff as a class skill (Trickery Domain Cleric Works as stated above) 1/ Ur Priest 1/ Mystic Theurge 10.

Now, you are going to need 3 feats to make this build really work, 1: as stated before, Laborius Training, 2: Precocious Apprentice, a feat in Complete Arcane that grants you a single second level arcane spell at level 1, then, for 3, you need 'Alternative Source Spell' from Dragon Magizine 325, it allows you to swap arcane spells for divine spells and vice versa, but you need both Arcane and Divine spellcasting for it, so it must be taken after 1 level in Ur Priest, now, this feat combines with 'Precocious Apprentice' and makes it so you meet the prerequisites of Arcane Theurge.

also, just realized that this is 3 years old... but i guess my answer could be used for anyone who still plays 3.5 today and wants to use Ur Priest.

Answer 3

0 additional levels needed: you can do Wizard 3/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge as long as you have 14+ intelligence.

1. Start as a medium evil wizard 3. One of your feats is Spell Focus(Evil), the others can be anything (don’t take Iron Will). Dump a bunch of points into the Ur-Priest skills: (Knowledge (arcana) 6, Knowledge (the planes) 5, Knowledge (religion) 6, Spellcraft 6) and you’ll have one point left over for Craft(basketweaving).

2. Snuggle a Lycanthrope until you catch lycanthropy. You need a base animal with at least 6 HD. Brown were-bear is the easiest (and is why you had to be medium), but you could do were-giant-squid or whatever. You gain 6HD of bear, which comes with base save, BAB, and 24 skill points. Assign 12 to bluff (cross class) to get 6 ranks, 4 to Knowledge (religion) for 8 total ranks, and 4 to Spellcraft for 8 total ranks. You have 10 points left over for Craft(basketweaving). You get Iron Will as a bonus feat, two stat increases, and two other feats from the animal HD. Don’t get too attached; you aren’t keeping them. Make sure you don’t fail your Will saves from changing shape, otherwise you’ll turn lawful good (This problem is specific to bears. You’ll have to check with your DM to find out what a giant squid’s natural alignment is).

3. Gain a level. That level is Ur-Priest. This may be difficult, because you are an ECL 11 character.

4. Go to the temple to get de-lycanthroped (Break Enchantment or Remove Curse, cast during the full moon + a will save). Depending how XP works when you lose 6HD and 2 ECL, you probably level up immediately (Ur-Priest 2) and have your XP set to 14,999. Either way, you are now Wizard 3/Ur-Priest 2, qualify for Mystic Theurge, and are 1XP away from taking it.

5. Enjoy.

Answer 4

Cleric 1:

• Domains: Knowledge (all knowledge as class skills), Trickery (bluff as a class skills)
• Skills ranks taken: Bluff 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Spellcraft 4, other Knowledges if enough skill points
• Base Saves: Fort +2, Will +2
• Feat: Spell Focus (evil)

Wizard 4:

• Skill ranks taken: Bluff (2 ranks taken as cross-class), Spellcraft 4, remaining Knowledge skills to fulfill Ur-Priest requirements
• Feat: Iron Will

Ur-Priest 2:

• remainder of requirements for Mystic Theurge

I don't like this answer because becoming an Ur-Priest dictates becoming an ex-Cleric, which loses all of the Cleric's class abilities, making for a neutered level. Also, a waste of 2 skill points for taking 2 ranks of Bluff as cross class.

Answer 5

Blue Dragon Shaman 1 / Wizard 4 / Ur-Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge

Blue Dragon Shaman's have both Bluff and Spellcraft as class skills, as well as Fortitude and Will as good saves.

Answer 6

Well, if you want to optimize it as much as you can and have access to flaws (which would be essential).

• You start with a human wizard, 2 flaw. you take the feats : spell focus transmutation, great fortitude, legacy of blood and spell focus evil.

• Then at level 3 you take the feat iron will (or if you can get if from the octyu hole do it)

• Level 4 you take shaper of form (just a dip)

• Level 5 ur priest

• Level 6 alternate source casting and your first level of Mystic theurge (if your DM doesn't agree you can take another level of shaper of form and start mystic theurge at level 7)

The point here is be able to have 19lvl caster of wizard and all 10 of ur priest.

With the shaper of form you get the +2 base fortitude needed for ur-priest without losing a caster level!! Here we go, magic!