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Is it possible for a mage or a sorcerer to permanently increase their attributes without using up experience points? If it is impossible, what can I tell my players other than "Sorry, but you need to spend experience to get that."

I don't want to be the type of gamemaster who says that they cannot do something because they are player characters.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Which version of Mage? As I recall, the spell duration rules changed quite a bit between them, and making things (anything) permanent was pretty hard in some. \$\endgroup\$
    – Paul
    Commented Nov 11, 2017 at 12:19
  • \$\begingroup\$ Is which version the only reason this is on hold? \$\endgroup\$
    – okeefe
    Commented Nov 13, 2017 at 0:50

2 Answers 2

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Yes and No at the same time.

Yes, in case of shifting attributes around:

  • Life 3 allows to easily increase one physical attribute - for the cost of reducing another by the same ammount. This is "free".
  • Mind 3 allows the same for the mental attributes.
  • Mind 3+Life 3 allows to shift from any one to any other attribute in the same manner.

No, in case you just raise one attribute:

  • In revised[citation needed], raising an attribute with magic would fade off, but allow to buy the raised attribute at half price and without training.
  • Mage 20th Anniversary EditionHow Do You DO That? grants pattern bleed damage as unsoakable damage for not paying up (see below).
  • And in all editions: raising an attribute above 5 would strike you with paradox. People are not supposed to be big, green and always angry.
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  • \$\begingroup\$ Your "no" answer seems incomplete; you only mention revised (yet the structure implies that "no" implies to all editions when you just raise an attribute). A rules citing would also be helpful - especially since @okeefe cited rules that it is possible in M20, at least (at the cost of pattern bleeding 1 level of damage per day, but still). I believe older versions had a similar rule (costing either quintessence or health if not "stabilized" with XP). \$\endgroup\$
    – Danny Cuppen
    Commented Nov 13, 2017 at 12:42
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M20's How Do You DO That? suggests that they'd need Life 3 to affect their body-based Attributes in such a manner (Life 4 to affect others). This includes Physical, Social, and Mental Attributes, although Mental changes might not be physically obvious.

So long as the changes remain within the normal human range – between one and five dots – and do not radically and abruptly alter the subject’s normal appearance (as it would if you suddenly turned a skinny dude into an underwear model), the alterations remain coincidental; if the changes go beyond the normal human maximum, however, or make other radical changes to a person’s appearance (huge eyes, antlers, etc.), then the alterations become vulgar. Radical and permanent changes may also (Storyteller’s call) inspire Genetic Flaws, as detailed in Appendix II of Mage 20, (pp. 648-651).

Typically, a mage needs four to six successes to change her shape permanently, or eight to 10 successes in order to transform someone else the same way.

In the case of [making] increased Attributes [permanent], they cost one-half of the normal experience-point expense if they’ve been raised by permanent Life-Sphere Effects. If the player does not pay the points to retain those Attributes, then the character suffers a Paradox-inflicted rotting disease, organ-rejection, nasty steroids-style side-effects, or other symptoms of bodily rejection. That rejection process inflicts one lethal health level in damage per day (no soak possible) until the player pays the necessary experience points in order to “stabilize” the character’s transformation. (Again, see the Genetic Flaws section of Mage 20’s Appendix II.)

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