So, I was looking for a way to close up my Cerebremancer (Wizard/Psion) build with emphasis on Psionic side (I like it way more) and as little Manifester Level loss as possible, and... There's not a lot to work with. Most psionic Prestige Classes don't work with the character in question, some offer redundant class features, and one (ArchPsion) looked almost perfect, but required a "translation" from 3.0 to 3.5 (it's as simple a translation as taking away 0th level Powers/Psionic Combat and replacing the prereqs with their 3.5 equivalents), and it's basically off the table.

Now, there's a subset of Prestige Classes that don't advance specifically arcane, or divine spellcasters (Like Alienist and Magical Trickster, whose class tables read "+1 level of existing spellcasting class"), and some even progress just an existing class (such as Loremaster and Divine Oracle that read "+1 level of existing class"). The descriptive text usually does have information on Spellcasting/Spells per Day progression, but it still strikes me as an interesting choice of words.

The question is, if this choice of words allows a Psionic character to advance his Manifesting capabilities via these classes, or if Psions should stick to explicitly Psionic prestige classes.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Heavily related: Psionics/Magic Transparancy and PrC Qualification. Not quite a dupe since it’s asking about going the opposite direction (divine spellcaster taking a psionic PrC) and because it focuses on thrallherd, which doesn’t have the same “+1 of existing class” table entry. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    May 29, 2018 at 18:29
  • \$\begingroup\$ How many levels are available? What is your build order (levels, feats, etc...)? Even if you are NOT asking for a specific build (as per the site rules) it might help us to have a generic idea of what your starting point is. \$\endgroup\$
    – nijineko
    May 31, 2018 at 16:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ Wizard 1/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 10 (Precocious Apprentice shenanigans). The character is Lawful (so no Anarchic Initiate), using Metamorphosis for melee (so Slayer doesn't do much besides lowering ML by 1) and constantly has to defeat enemies whose CR is 4-7 higher than Party ECL. \$\endgroup\$ May 31, 2018 at 19:07

2 Answers 2


The table is always abbreviated and for reference only. The “real” rules are the text. The errata rules specify this explicitly. So you have to go by the text.

And the text in this case talks about caster level, spells per day, and spells known, not manifester level, daily power points, or powers known. And the default magic–psionic transparency says nothing about (prestige) class features. So talk about caster level, spells per day, and spells known in a class feature does a manifester no good (as opposed to those things in a spell or magic item, which do aid a manifester).

So no, officially, these do nothing for you. They’re usually easily-translated, and some even have official Adaptation sections suggesting it, but then the arch-psion is also pretty easily translated and you already said that was out.

The only other thing you might be able to do is somehow get access to the magic mantle from Complete Psionic, either by dipping a level of ardent or, if you’re specifically an egoist psion, by using the true healer variant to get the life mantle, and then taking the Tap Mantle (magic mantle) feat at 6th and the Don Mantle (magic mantle) feat at 9th (both Tap Mantle and Don Mantle are from Complete Psionic). This might accomplish what you want because the magic mantle is worded terribly and so arguably allows this kind of “complete transparency” over and above what Expanded Psionics Handbook suggests. This is almost-certainly not intended, since Complete Psionic describes the effect as something “Most campaigns already [do],” but ultimately the wording is so poor that no one can say for sure. Only your DM can answer that question for your campaign.

Were it me, not in a million years would I want to invite magic mantle abuse into my game; I would much, much rather perform some minor translation for you.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Aw fiddlesticks. Yeah, the place I'm playing at is all about playing by the rules, so a heavy rules abuse is preferable to light rules translation to them (the administration is that rules illiterate, it baffles me too). \$\endgroup\$ May 29, 2018 at 18:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Baka-Mastermind You might consider ardent over psion, and then possibly psychic theurge over cerebremancer: ardent is more multiclass-friendly, also gets 9th-level powers, is Wis-based, and has native access to the magic mantle. The downside is rather-drastically limited options for powers known. And ardents really want to hit 10th for dominant ideal... \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    May 29, 2018 at 18:52
  • \$\begingroup\$ The character is already in play and, in fact, overwhelmingly strong, I just wanted to close up with something better than "oh, and one bonus feat, I guess" \$\endgroup\$ May 29, 2018 at 18:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Baka-Mastermind Anarchic initiate and slayer sound like your only likely possibilities. If not those, or adapted 3.0 material, you’re probably out of luck. Feel free to ask it as a separate question, though. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    May 29, 2018 at 19:30

There are a small number of classes that allow you to progress all class features of a previous class, without reservation (the uncanny trickster, for example, or the legacy Champion). They're probably not what you're looking for, though, as they pretty much all involve losing a level or two along the way. If you really don't like any of the available psionic classes, you might want to consider just going back to your base class.

Alternately, you could use one of the generic progress classes to continue to progress Cerebremancer itself, and try to get both sides of your progression. You might need to talk with your DM about that one.

  • \$\begingroup\$ I've heard about these two (Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion), and the stuff they offer is not that interesting by the end of Cerebremancer progression (not enough skilltricks the character qualifies, and LC just progresses a subpar feat-intensive Legacy Weapon). Are there any other classes like these? \$\endgroup\$ May 29, 2018 at 18:42
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Baka-Mastermind Legacy champion and uncanny trickster are the only two in 3.5e. Pathfinder has the evangelist, and possibly others, but I assume from your tags that you aren’t using Pathfinder material. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    May 29, 2018 at 18:44
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Baka-Mastermind (Of all the things legacy weapons are, feat-intensive, fortunately, isn't one of them: "A legacy item’s wielder who completes a given ritual immediately gains a bonus legacy feat" (WL 9), so the feats that many folks think must be taken to realize the legacy weapon's benefit are, in fact, bonus feats for going through the rituals. Of course, if you meant something else entirely, carry on!) \$\endgroup\$ May 29, 2018 at 18:50
  • \$\begingroup\$ Oh. Interesting. I wonder if I should design one then... Not a lot of good Psionic abilities, of course, but some abilities that already exist in other Legacy Weapons do look interesting... \$\endgroup\$ May 29, 2018 at 18:57
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Baka-Mastermind (You should check out KRyan's answer to this question if considering a legacy weapon.) \$\endgroup\$ May 29, 2018 at 19:06

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