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The SRD description for Seed: Transform is confusing when it comes to mental abilities (see bolded parts below):

The transform seed can also change its target into someone specific. To transform an object or creature into the specific likeness of another individual (including memories and mental abilities), increase the Spellcraft DC by +25. If the transformed creature doesn’t have the level or Hit Dice of its new likeness, it can only use the abilities of the creature at its own level or Hit Dice. If slain or destroyed, the transformed creature or object reverts to its original form. The subject’s equipment, if any, remains untransformed or melds into the new form’s body, at the caster’s option. The transformed creature or object acquires the physical and natural abilities of the creature or object it has been changed into while retaining its own memories and mental ability scores.

Mental abilities are defined in the description as follows:

Mental abilities include personality, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, level and class, hit points (despite any change in its Constitution score), alignment, base attack bonus, base saves, extraordinary abilities, spells, and spell-like abilities, but not its supernatural abilities.

I'm not quite sure how to interpret this. It seems like if you don't assume the likeness of a specific individual then you get none of the mental abilities quoted above, whereas if you do assume the likeness of a specific individual then you get all of them.

As an example, it sounds like if I transformed a level 20 lawful good dwarf fighter into a generic lich, his type would change to undead and it would gain the STR/DEX/CON of a lich but he would remain a lawful good fighter with his normal HP, saves, base attack bonus, INT/WIS/CHA scores and extraordinary abilities.

But if I transform him into a specific lich (with, say, 20 wizard levels), now the fighter is in every way identical to the lich, except for the fact that the epic spell may not give him the lich's supernatural abilities and that the transformation can be dispelled. He is now an evil lich with 20 wizard levels and a totally different personality/memories, has the STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA of that lich, rerolls all his HD as d12s, etc...

Is this right?

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2 Answers 2

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Attempting to parse intent from the oft poorly edited writings of D&D authors (the final release by WotC of the SRD contains numerous grammar and spelling errors) is fraught with difficulty. On top of that, the additions to the 3.5 Epic rules (such as found in the SRD or ELH) are infamous examples.

However, there may be a point of guidance in the terms used. Mental abilities as defined include mental ability scores generally, and thus would generally be affected... except that in the last part of the quote it calls mental abilities scores out separately as being specifically retained by a transformed individual.

Thus I feel that one possible valid interpretation would be that mental abilities (other than mental scores) are granted to the transformed individual, subject to the other limitations listed.

In the case of memories, I believe that both sets would be accessible by those targets that had an original set of memories prior to transformation, since that seems the only logical way to resolve both retaining and gaining memories.

Unlike ability scores which are defined in the game and limited to a given value at any given time, memories are not well defined in the game, perhaps requiring a more common sense approach and on the spot adjudication.

As a side comment, should the DM desire a scenario where the transformed individual cannot access their original memories: hypnosis or some other memory altering effect (perhaps even another application of the transform seed) may be additionally used to ensure that outcome.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Yes, the scores part you mention was a huge time sink for me when I first read it... the big conflict for me is that it seems strange for the specific transformation that you would gain the memories, personality and alignment of the assumed form (which are mental abilities) while retaining your own memories (but not your own personality and alignment). Can't figure out how to resolve that other than just saying that all mental abilities get completely replaced. \$\endgroup\$
    – Erik
    Commented Nov 18 at 14:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ I agree about the strangeness. It strikes me as this entry is referencing certain concepts in fantasy and scifi when a character is convinced they are someone else for plot purposes. Given the vagueness and contradicting nature of the text, and Epic seeds in general, I suggest that you treat it as an optional effect that may be chosen or ignored at the preference of the character, and allow saving throws to recover the original personality if imposed or a trigger if voluntarily accepting the change, with the possible variations being selectable. \$\endgroup\$
    – nijineko
    Commented Nov 21 at 14:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ It could be that, since you're transforming the target into some individual, as soon as you transform the target they act as though they're that individual, but are conflicted by the fact that they have someone else's memories, and so have to find a way to reconcile that. But these kinds of philosophical rabbit holes are usually not what you play D&D for, haha... \$\endgroup\$
    – Erik
    Commented Nov 27 at 22:42
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There are two separate possible outcomes:

  • Either, you pay +25 to spellcraft DC and gain memories (most probably, in addition to your own, but who knows?) and mental abilities...
  • or, you just use it as is and retain your own memories and mental abilities.
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  • \$\begingroup\$ Disclosed explanations of downvotes are welcome. \$\endgroup\$
    – annoying imp
    Commented Dec 4 at 9:14

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