While doing finishing touches I've stumbled into a wall when it comes to Sha'ir spell list. Sha'ir is basically half-sorc and half-wizard when it comes to learning spells, with a little spice of dynamically re-preparing spells on the fly. While "spells known" are identical to that of sorcerer, "spells identified" are basically an untangible form of wizard's spellbook.

My problem though, is that while wizard has specified costs of learning new spells (spellbook cost, writing down a spell cost, one can even replicate costs for "lending" a spell to be copied from Pathfinder 1.0), thus easily answering question of "how many spells do I know at level X?", Sha'ir don't have such a thing. Are there any rules that I'm missing? How do I decide how many spells my Sha'ir have in his "identified" list?

BONUS sub-question: can I safely assume that if I multiclass with let's say Cleric, I will have all the spells that are shared between spell lists identified for Sha'ir?


1 Answer 1


There is no limit on how many spells you can identify. However, there is no “Knowledge-like” function of Spellcraft for determining whether you have seen a given spell before in your backstory or whatever, which is really what you need, particularly if starting as a high-level sha’ir. But that’s effectively what you should have to determine this, and that function should exist. You should ask your DM to work out a DC formula for that. But realistically, Spellcraft is a focus for almost all spellcasters and it’s unlikely that this check would be difficult.

Deciphering a spell scroll, or even a spellbook, should also work, so if nothing else you could pretend you’re a wizard who gets to skip the step of actually copying the spell into your spellbook.

And yes, knowing and casting the spell from another class as a multiclass sha’ir should definitely count, in my opinion.

But ultimately, this question is, to me, roughly the same as asking how a wizard determines the two spells they get free each level. How does the wizard know those two spells exist? In the rules, the answer is that she just does; there is nothing to roll, no restrictions to observe. I treat the sha’ir the same way, and allow the time limitations to keep things balanced (retrieving spells you don’t know takes considerably longer than spells you do know). I haven't played with a lot of sha’irs (as DM, fellow player, or the player of the sha’ir myself), but at least in the experience I do have, this has been not a problem.

I figure in theory there might be some special cases a DM might want to keep secret, and require you to find the spell in question (in written form, or see it cast or observe its effects and aura, or talk to a spellcaster who knows it), but those would be special cases and at least so far it’s never come up for me.

  • \$\begingroup\$ I feel like there's probably a couple more tags we can add to the question, any ideas? \$\endgroup\$ Jan 18, 2022 at 13:50
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ThomasMarkov Not really? We probably don’t need a sha’ir tag (though we do have a fair few questions on it and it does have unique mechanics), and other than that... no, not really anything. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jan 18, 2022 at 13:54
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    \$\begingroup\$ Thing is, with Wizard there is an exact formula. You can have as many spells on any given level as You can afford. Money is Your ultimate limit if nothing else. I'd like to avoid hand-waving whenever possible, this is why I asked for some kind of limiter for Sha'ir. Is there any price formula for how much "showing a spell to someone" should cost? Or do I just say I've seen all the spells 1-3 by level 10 and be done with it? \$\endgroup\$
    – Nec Xelos
    Jan 18, 2022 at 14:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ @NecXelos Archivist, wizard, and wu jen are literally the only prepared spellcasters in the entire game that are limited in that fashion. Every other prepared spellcaster can just prepare anything. The sha’ir is awkward here, but yes, but as you note, there’s nothing explicitly in the rules for the class putting any kind of cost or limit on this, so I think it’s safe to regard it as just fluff. I mean, what rules does your table use for the forms that a druid can wild shape into? Same concept. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jan 18, 2022 at 14:35
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    \$\begingroup\$ @NecXelos Oh, but on the subject of “Is there any price formula for how much ‘showing a spell to someone’ should cost?” actually yes: “In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level × 50 gp.” A sha’ir needs less time with the spellbook than a wizard does, since they don’t have to copy it, but I doubt wizards will really care all that much and aren’t likely to offer much discount. (Seeing the spellcast in person could be a spellcasting service.) \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jan 18, 2022 at 14:42

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