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I am little bit confused about the correct manifesting sequence, including every possible option that can be chosen by a wilder. It sounds a little bit silly but we had a quite hard hassle about that.

There are several problems which needs to be clarified. For example :

  1. Is it possible for a wilder to lower his manifester level after unsuccesful psychic enervation roll to suffer less damage or the option to lower his manifester level must be made at the start of manifesting and a wilder cannot changed it after.

  2. In a situation when a wilder 3 (warrior surge) is out of power points and decides to manifest a psionic power Metamorphosis Minor - option 5 temporary hp with wild surge, expands his psionic focus to fuel his wild surge to manifest a power without power points, is immediately after wild surge struck by unsuccesful psychic enervation roll and is damaged in return for total of damage equal to his manifester level, what will happen first, does he get damage from psychic enervation and so logically risking to concetrate on manifesting the power or the effect of power - 5 temporary hp occurs first and then he suffers damage from psychic enervation?

  3. The flowchart is not finished ...


2 Answers 2


The flowchart that you have makes it seem like there are a bunch of choices that you make in order, when instead you make all of those choices at the same time. You make all of your manifestation choices at the same time. Here's how that flowchart would work:

  1. Pick what power you want to manifest.
  2. Make all decisions that you would make about that manifestation. This includes manifester level, how much you're augmenting it, whether you Wild Surge or Overchannel, or any other choices that you're going to make.
  3. Spend the power points needed to manifest the power.
  4. If necessary, make a Concentration check to manifest the power. If you fail the check, skip to step 6.
  5. Manifest the power.
  6. Take any costs related to manifesting the power, including Overchannel damage and Psychic Enervation.

Whether or not you still take Overchannel damage and Enervation if you fail the Concentration check is debatable enough that your DM might have a different interpretation, but there is support for either reading in the text.

To answer your specific questions:

  1. No, you can't lower your manifester level after suffering enervation, and that wouldn't work anyway. You suffer enervation "immediately following each wild surge", which means that you don't make the roll until after the power has already been manifested. In addition, enervation is based off of your "normal manifester level", which is just your class level. It doesn't matter what level you manifest a power with, you still take your class level in damage with your warrior's surge.

  2. Your power manifests, and then you get hit with enervation. Like I said in 1, enervation only happens after the wild surge has already happened, and thus after the power is manifested. You'd get your 5 hp, and then take 3 damage.


Is it possible for a wilder to lower his manifester level after unsuccessful psychic enervation roll to suffer less damage or the option to lower his manifester level must be made at the start of manifesting and a wilder cannot changed it after.

Where are you reading this, specifically? I don't think I've ever heard of rules in Pathfinder which mentions anything like this. No, you can't change what level you're manifesting a power at after you have already decided prior to invoking surge. If you make the option to manifest a power without paying power points and you enervate because of it you suffer consequences equal to your manifester level.

In other words, you flubbed your casting and due to the rules involving invoking Wild surge without paying for power points, you have to wait ten minutes until you can make another attempt to manifest without power points again.

A warrior wilder overcome by psychic enervation is staggered until the end of her next turn and loses a number of hit points equal to her normal manifester level (the increase in manifester level from her wild surge does not increase the number of hit points lost).

In this instance, you'd lose your manifester level (equal to the number of class levels in a given manifesting class) in hit points. If you're a Wilder 3 your manifester level would also be three. If you were a Wilder20, your manifester level would be 20.

Your manifester level can be augmented. The level at which you manifest a power changes depending on whether or not you used the Overchannel feat, or whether or not your Wild surge was successful. But your unmodified Manifester level is always equal to your number of class levels in psionic classes.

Instances in which increasing your manifesting level are important when utilizing the power Dispel Psionics (/Magic). In this instance a higher manifester level increases your chance of dispelling magic or psionics.

Using Overchannel can increase your manifester level by up to 3, and in doing so increases the maximum amount of power points you can expend on a power by 3 as well.

If you try manifesting the power Minor Metamorphosis with no power points, using your psionic focus to do so, and suffer enervation, the effect of your Warrior's Surge enervation takes effect and you lose Three hit points.

On that flowchart, directly at the end of the branches stating "The Wilder is overcome by the strain of her effort" you would add the section where penalties for Enervation are calculated.

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Are you sure that different psionic classes stack their manifester levels? Could you provide a citation on that? That's definitely not how it works for magic classes. \$\endgroup\$
    – DuckTapeAl
    Feb 15, 2015 at 20:36
  • \$\begingroup\$ Did some research and that isn't correct, from the Glossary: "Manifester Level: Generally equal to the number of class levels in a given manifesting class. Some prestige classes add manifester levels to an existing class. Manifester levels from multiple base classes do not stack (they are tracked individually, akin to how sorcerer and wizard caster levels are tracked individually). A character with psi-like abilities, but no class levels in any manifesting class, does not have a manifester level for most purposes, including feat and prestige class requirements." Changing answer to reflect. \$\endgroup\$
    – Sandwich
    Feb 15, 2015 at 20:55

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