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The Firre Eladrin is in the Book of Exalted Deeds, page 169. If someone wanted to make a character of this race, how would it work? Is there any way to reduce the +10 LA to something more realistic?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ At-will greater invisibility and polymorph combined with limitless bardic music and the ability to cast spells like a Clr12 can do a lot of damage to the campaign (although still less than a Wiz18). What about the creature is particularly interesting or attractive? Maybe there's a way to get just those abilities without being an 8 HD creature with ECL 18. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 14 '15 at 9:07
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    \$\begingroup\$ Just for clarity, are you looking for ways to change the stats of the firre eladrin to justify a lower LA, or are you looking for rules-as-written tricks to reduce it? \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jul 14 '15 at 12:42
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm looking for any legitimate (i.e. supported completely by the books) way to be able to play this race, particularly conserving the unlimited bardic musics. I understand I can do it with LA 10. Are there other ways that are legitimate which have a lower LA? \$\endgroup\$
    – JoshuaD
    Jul 15 '15 at 16:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ (I'm trying to figure out what information and recommendations, if any, I should include on this race in the New Bard Handbook: joshuad.net/new-bard-handbook) \$\endgroup\$
    – JoshuaD
    Jul 15 '15 at 16:31
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Something with a level adjustment of +10 isn't really supposed to be played.


Sure, you could piece by piece, pick apart some abilities to knock off level adjustments, however, that would take a lot of your DM's time and flipping back and forth between the DMG, Savage Species, and Book of Exalted Deeds. But each level adjustment that is reduced is another ability lost for the celestial.
What it looks like you want is a Half-Celestial Bard.

  1. Use the Template Class for the Half-Fiend (but use Half-Celestial instead).
  2. Now, four levels of the template class doesn't give you any hit dice. So, in order to get some hit dice Get a Weapon of Legacy and take the Legacy Champion prestige class.
  3. You can use that prestige class to get the rest of your template class, all while gaining hit dice and such.


If that isn't your idea of what you would like, what I suggest is:

  1. Your DM create a Monster Class for the Firre Eladrin.
  2. Get a Weapon of Legacy.
  3. Take a level of monster class that grants a hit die. Take a level of Legacy Champion prestige class for a level of the monster class that doesn't grant a hit die.
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  • \$\begingroup\$ I suspect that this is a much more RAW-minded answer than requested, but even if not, Weapons of Legacy is a terrible book and legacy champion is a terrible class. Not good suggestions, IMO. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jul 14 '15 at 12:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ @KRyan I agree it is a terrible book and terrible class. It was a RAW-minded answer. Legacy champion being the only "viable" method for the +8 LA Vampire template class still doesn't make it a good idea either. \$\endgroup\$
    – Ruut
    Jul 15 '15 at 1:28
  • \$\begingroup\$ Eh, after some thought, I’d relent; legacy champion remains awful and I despise its abuse, but using it to progress (often equally-awful) monster classes is at least creative use that probably winds up somewhat-reasonable. If you edit your answer, note me in a comment and I’ll reverse my vote. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jul 15 '15 at 1:59

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