The level 10 Fighter talent "Improved Knockdown" says "you automatically apply the critical success effect of a Trip", and the level 4 Rogue talent "The Harder They Fall" says "When you successfully Trip a flat-footed foe, your target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage. On a critical success, the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage plus your sneak attack damage".

Is it possible to stack the effect of both talents?


1 Answer 1


The text is ambiguous

Based on the text that is present, you can either read this as Improved Knockdown modifying how Knockdown works, which means that you are still using the Trip action and this works, OR that Improved Knockdown is a unique effect that replaces Knockdown, in which case this doesn't work.

Quick googling finds arguments for both sides. There does not seem to be a consensus nor a clear answer.

The Remaster doesn't help

The Remaster text for this (Crashing Slam), is identical, so there is no help there.

It isn't problematic to allow

This isn't a very powerful interaction to allow, so whether it should work precisely or not isn't very important for most cases, it will function fine.

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ The, uh, wordings of Improved Knockdown and Crashing Slam are identical. Unless you copied/entered the wrong one (I don't have the Remaster book to verify myself). So I wouldn't say the text is much clearer unless there's an error here. (AoN link: 2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=403) \$\endgroup\$
    – ESCE
    Jan 8 at 22:38
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ @ESCE Honestly, I don't know what happened, but I would swear they were different yesterday. But even the Core Rulebook is the same now, so probably my brain lying to me. \$\endgroup\$ Jan 8 at 23:51
  • \$\begingroup\$ In what case is this not important, considering the only qualifying builds for these feats are figher+rogue or rogue+mauler? For a 4 class feat minimum combo it's probably not taken casually in either case. \$\endgroup\$
    – brandon
    Jan 9 at 6:58

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .