I started playing a Rogue Ratfolk and have brought myself to the RMA prestige class. I used to wield a ratfolk Tailblade to maximise sneak potential, but it didn't work out because the attacks kept missing so I abandoned this idea. However after a year of playing I suddenly discovered weapon modifications from Advanced Armory.

The Versatile Design feature says that weapons with such a mod can be treated as a different weapon fighting group with the limitation of converting melee weapons to range (which does not matter in this case). Although, it can be changed to the Natural weapon group, which contains 'tail' I suppose.

I can apply Weapon Adept and Exotic Weapon proficiency granted by the feats I already have. Moreover, I would also apply Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization granted by the Red Mantis Assassin class.

I have Amulet of the mighty fists with Agile enchantment as well, so applying Dex to attack rolls with natural weapons is not a problem.

So now I'd really like to return to idea of three-weapon fighting but I'm having a sort of confrontation about whether I can make this combination with my GM.

Would having Versatile Design on a Sawtooth Sabre allow me to wield it on my tail, therefore having my tail weapon benefit from all the feats granted by the Red Mantis Assassin?

  • \$\begingroup\$ Maybe the Transformative enchantment can retain the quatity of tail-wielding property as it says 'The weapon retains all of its abilities, including enhancement bonuses and weapon special abilities, except those prohibited by its current shape.' I'm not sure about this either. \$\endgroup\$
    – InnCanary
    Commented Dec 16, 2019 at 11:35
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Transformative enchantment is something different from Versatile Design, and it would require another question, as per SE's rules. But I'll spare you some time, I can answer this one from the bat; it won't work either. We're not supposed to answer question in comment, so I won't go into details here (but I'm fully willing to take the time in a proper answer to another question if you need a disambiguation). \$\endgroup\$
    – Nyakouai
    Commented Dec 16, 2019 at 14:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ As I realised, Tail-blade won't be Saw-tooth sabre if It's transformed by any means and vice versa. I appreciated your help a lot. No need in another question here. \$\endgroup\$
    – InnCanary
    Commented Dec 16, 2019 at 15:57

1 Answer 1


Short answer: No, you can not wield a Saw-Tooth Saber with a tail

There seems to be a bit of a mix-up here.

Weapons fighting groups refer to the different group weapons are classified under:

  • Axes
  • Heavy Blades
  • Light Blades
  • Bow
  • Close
  • Crossbows
  • Double
  • Firearms
  • Flails
  • Hammer
  • Monk
  • Natural
  • Polearms
  • Siege engine
  • Spears
  • Thrown
  • Tribal

(You can check the full list of weapons included in each group in the Fighter class).

Versatile Design would allow you to, for instance, use a great axe as if it were from the Hammer fighting group for the purpose of the Fighter's Weapons Training (and other class features based on the weapons fighting group). So if you're a Hammer specialist, but you're stuck with a versatile great axe, you can make use of your weapon training with that particular axe.

It does not, however, allows you to treat a weapon as another. Therefore, you can not treat a Tail-blade as a Saw-Tooth Saber, only treat a Tail-Blade as a Heavy Blade for the purpose of class features (which is not particularly useful). You could also treat your Saw-Tooth Saber as a Natural weapon, and gain the benefits of the Amulet of Mighty Fists on it; I suppose it was not how the rules were intended to work, but RAW, it mechanically works.

Last but not least, the more important point is: Nothing here allows you to wield a Saw-Tooth Saber with your tail. Your tail is not prehensible and is not suited to grab weapons. Tail-blade is an exception as it is specifically designed to be straped to a ratfolk's tail. No matter what you change about your Saw-Tooth Saber, it is not the problem; the lack of a hand to grab an hilt at the end of your tail is.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you for your answer, i definetly missed the difference between weapon type and weapon group rule's description. \$\endgroup\$
    – InnCanary
    Commented Dec 16, 2019 at 15:50

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